<html><head><style id="outgoing-font-settings">#response_container_BBPPID{font-family: initial; font-size:initial; color: initial;}</style></head><body style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-image: initial; line-height: initial;"><div id="response_container_BBPPID" style="outline:none;" dir="auto" contenteditable="false"> <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"> As the person who initiated this thread I just want to make it clear that I did not intend it to be come a HOT bashing forum rather to point out that Africa tends to be where mappers come to train, some to then move on to map elsewhere others to never map again. The result is a great deal of bad data that remains. I mentioned 1 mapper who responded to my advice by saying that the information was for the benefit of the country for development reasons. I never mentioned my response to him was that if the data was poor it was worse than useless.</div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;">I can only talk about Zambia, as has been pointed out Africa is not one country. I suspect that while the local authorities may have no idea as to the population in their district the central government does, the problem often is the data is there but nobody knows how to access it. Zambia centralised its administration after independence whereas prior to that the district authorities had more control, even a share of tax revenues. There was also an unpopular form of hut tax that was paid off by maintaining the local road network with labour from the local villages. This is not a debate on the pros and cons just a statement of fact.</div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;">Zambia has generally been very good with vaccination programs. Even the current Covid vaccination program, when they get the vaccines. Education is another story though, the big problem in Zambia is the quality of the teachers, only 60% are qualified, no matter how many classrooms you have if you don't have the teachers the quality of the education will be poor.</div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;">OSM is a great tool but it is only as good as the quality of the data and that was my point. Garbage in garbage out.</div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;">Peace all and stay safe.</div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;">Dave</div> <div name="BB10" id="response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"> <br style="display:initial"></div> <div id="blackberry_signature_BBPPID" name="BB10" dir="auto"> <div id="_signaturePlaceholder_BBPPID" name="BB10" dir="auto"></div> </div></div><div id="_original_msg_header_BBPPID" dir="auto"> <table width="100%" style="border-spacing: 0px; display: table; outline: none;" contenteditable="false"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding: initial; font-size: initial; text-align: initial;"> <div style="border-right: none; border-bottom: none; border-left: none; border-image: initial; border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; font-family: Tahoma, "BB Alpha Sans", "Slate Pro"; font-size: 10pt;"> <div id="from"><b>From:</b> jwhelan0112@gmail.com</div><div id="sent"><b>Sent:</b> 1 August 2021 19:56</div><div id="to"><b>To:</b> pierzenh@yahoo.fr</div><div id="cc"><b>Cc:</b> osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</div><div id="subject"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Osmf-talk] Africa as a training ground was RE: google Open Buildings usage request</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <br> </div><!--start of _originalContent --><div name="BB10" dir="auto" style="background-image: initial; line-height: initial; outline: none;" contenteditable="false"><div dir="auto">I strongly suspect this conversation should be taking place on talk-OSM to be more inclusive.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">My personal thoughts on Africa run along the lines of there are a wealth of resources that could be used to improve life but how to tap them is a problem.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For example DR Congo is limited by not having a stable government. War and war lords are a problem. Companies will not invest if their property stands a chance of being destroyed by people with guns.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Corruption means things cost more. World Bank estimates the cost of building a highway in a neighbouring country to some of the ones it has built was about half the cost.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The free trade agreement that has just been signed should have a major impact.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Medicine and education are problematic. Kenya has just signed an agreement to allow unemployed nurses and doctors to work in the UK. The number of nurses and doctors per head of population in Kenya is I suspect lower than the UK. I understand some countries teachers were being paid but not actually being found in schools.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">OSM is actually a fairly effective way to help. We can identify where settlements are and a basic highway network to the settlements. You can make a very crude population estimate based on the size of the settlement. No money is involved so the chance of corruption is smaller.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">On the health care front one of the most cost effective things you can do is vacinate. To do that you need to know where the population is and how to get the vacinne to the target population.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I was involved in one project that was trying to estimate the population so the appropriate number of classrooms could be provided. It turned out the population was roughly twice the number the local government had thought it was. That project was a bit special with very experienced mappers and validators.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What I'd like to see is every school tagged with it's name. Many of the buildings are mapped but often the associated villages are not named. There is a wealth of teacher aids for OSM.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On the GIS side agriculture in other countries make use of GIS to improve crop yields. Having a core of experienced mappers in Africa and a couple of universities should mean something similar could be done in Africa but before you can run and use these more complex ideas you need to be able to walk. Having a basic map in place is something to work from. Having a few mappers who know the basic tool set helps as well.</div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">We need GIS traces from delivery trucks to identify the major highways.</div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">We need ways for a local with a smartphone to enrich the map even if the device is off line.</div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Basic income from whom? We can't even manage that in more established countries.</div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Rant over.</div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Cheerio John</div></div></div>
<!--end of _originalContent --></div></body></html>