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<p>(just to reply to one piece of this)<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/09/2021 20:31, Robert Grübler
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:002e01d7ae56$1e7762c0$5b662840$@gmail.com">
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<h3><span lang="EN-US">Inform DWG?<o:p></o:p></span></h3>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span lang="EN-US">Ticket#2021081310000199
of 13 Aug. 2021 “iD editor systematically damages data”. No
response after 5 weeks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><b><span lang="EN-US">Result: null<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p>I did read this ticket when it came in to the DWG (as I'm sure
did other DWG people - at least 2 have commented on the ticket
internally).</p>
<p>With any DWG ticket, there's always a certain amount of
prioritisation that takes place - do we need to deal with X
instead of Y first? When your ticket came in I read through it,
and a couple of things failed the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/smell_test">smell test</a>
so it got pushed down the list somewhat.<br>
</p>
<p>One of those was (and I hope you don't mind me quoting here) "For
years, the iD editor made a trail of devastation through
relations. Splitting paths that are part of relations destroys the
order of relation members and thus also an essential piece of
information". The reasons were that (a) hyperbole is rarely an
indicator of issue importance and (b) relationship member order
isn't considered important by everyone. Some people do like to
sort relations, true, but anyone wanting to do anything with OSM
data such as using it in a router is going to need to do something
with the data anyway, such as convert the data into a graph, where
"relation membership" is just another attribute. More generally,
speaking as someone who keeps an eye on the status of a large
number of area features and route relations in GB and Ireland (see
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/397310">here</a>
and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/395232">here</a>)
I simply don't see breakage by iD users out of proportion to the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editor_usage_stats">percentage
of changesets</a> that are by iD. For completeness, my own <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?SomeoneElse">editor preferences</a>
are such that I don't really sit on one side or the other in the
"iD vs JOSM" fight.<br>
</p>
<p>In addition, you've already raised your issues with the iD
project, and there's been a significant amount of discussion on
those issues (such as <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4876">here</a>).
The OSMF hasn't exactly been silent on iD either - the OSMF blog <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2021/09/13/join-the-osmf-engineering-working-group/">here</a>
and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2021/06/15/apply-to-maintain-and-develop-id/">here</a>
there has talked about how they're trying to go forward with it.</p>
<p>Although the DWG <i>has</i> done what it can to prevent edits by
buggy editors in the past, I don't think that this is a situation
that merits our involvement at this time, especially given what
the OSMF is already trying to do.</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Andy (from the DWG, and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/102912562">occasional
repairer</a> of GB/IE national park and other relations)</p>
<p><br>
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