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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 20.09.2021 um 21:50 schrieb Brian M.
      Sperlongano:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMrfQx34R_s2ye+s9=Y2-_Gzxhk5W4KZEGoqPuSL=5PJdXi8pg@mail.gmail.com">
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      <div dir="ltr">This is also an issue with boundaries, ticket
        #8286:
        <div><a href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8286"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8286</a><br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>While it is clearly good practice to try and maintain order when
      splitting a way that is a member of a boundary or multi-polygon,
      not doing so doesn't break the object at hand in any meaningful
      way. Any processing of a boundary or multi-polygon on the other
      hand that relies on the members being correctly ordered is
      actually broken.</p>
    <p>The problem with preserving manual ordering is only a real issue
      with routes that cannot be reliably automatically sorted and have
      a brittle data model, that is mainly public transport routes. The
      problem theoretically can happen on other type of routes but would
      require loops etc. that need to be traversed in specific way on a
      specific side of the road, and these are likely to be rather rare.</p>
    <p>Restrictions do not require ordering, but splitting of ways
      requires some care when assigning roles, I however don't believe
      there is a current issue with iD in that respect.</p>
    <p>Back to the route ordering issue, handling this correctly
      requires the editing application to have access to the connecting
      ways at the ends of the way that has been split (well at least one
      of them). This is not always a given as when you are splitting a
      longer way, the end points may not be in the downloaded data, and
      to actually do it correctly you will need to download the ways for
      the end nodes. While this is always possible for iD it isn't so
      for other editors that may be operating offline.</p>
    <p>Note the above assumes that the route is actually ordered
      correctly and the way members are split at the correct places, if
      they aren't all bets are off.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Simon<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMrfQx34R_s2ye+s9=Y2-_Gzxhk5W4KZEGoqPuSL=5PJdXi8pg@mail.gmail.com"><br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 3:35
          PM Robert Grübler <<a href="mailto:robgruebler@gmail.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">robgruebler@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div lang="DE-AT">
            <div class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568WordSection1">
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">Subject: App damaging OSM data</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">The web app "iD" has been systematically
                  damaging relations for years. This is particularly
                  serious because relations are often complex and
                  therefore difficult to repair. </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">What can be done about it?</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <h3><span lang="EN-US">Create issues?</span></h3>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">Since 2018, there have been several
                  issues on this. E.G.:  </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4861"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #4861</a>
                  of 8 March 2018 "Splitting the road, breaks TR
                  relation"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4876"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #4876</a>
                  of 11 March 2018 "Splitting roads can reorder ways
                  incorrectly in a route relation with loops"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4978"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #4978</a>
                  of 10 April 2018 "Bus stop and platform added to end
                  of bus route relation"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8330"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #8330</a>
                  of 28 January 2021 "iD breaks public transport
                  relations on way split"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8578"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #8578</a>
                  of 13 July 2021 "iD damages relations when splitting
                  ways"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><b><span
                    lang="EN-US">Result: null</span></b></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <h3><span lang="EN-US">Inform DWG?</span></h3>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">Ticket#2021081310000199 of 13 Aug. 2021
                  “iD editor systematically damages data”. No response
                  after 5 weeks.</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><b><span
                    lang="EN-US">Result: null</span></b></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <h3><span lang="EN-US">Contact OSMF?</span></h3>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">This mail: <i>Engine room to bridge:
                    Fuel damaging engine. What to do?</i></span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">Best regards</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">Robert Grübler (robhubi)</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">============ Translated with <a
                    href="http://www.DeepL.com/Translator"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.DeepL.com/Translator</a>
                  ============</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="DE">Betreff: App beschädigt OSM-Daten</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="DE"> </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="DE">Die Web-App „iD“ beschädigt seit Jahren, auf
                  systematischer Weise, Relationen. Das wiegt besonders
                  schwer, da Relationen häufig komplex sind und
                  dementsprechend schwierig zu reparieren sind. </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="DE">Was kann man dagegen tun?</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="DE"> </span></p>
              <h3><span lang="DE">Issues erstellen?</span></h3>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="DE">Seit 2018 gibt es dazu mehrere Issues. </span><span
                  lang="EN-US">Z.B.: </span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4861"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #4861</a>
                  of 8 March 2018 "Splitting the road, breaks TR
                  relation"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4876"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #4876</a>
                  of 11 March 2018 "Splitting roads can reorder ways
                  incorrectly in a route relation with loops"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4978"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #4978</a>
                  of 10 April 2018 "Bus stop and platform added to end
                  of bus route relation"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8330"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #8330</a>
                  of 28 January 2021 "iD breaks public transport
                  relations on way split"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"><a
                    href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8578"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Issue #8578</a>
                  of 13 July 2021 "iD damages relations when splitting
                  ways"</span></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><b><span
                    lang="EN-US">Ergebnis: null</span></b></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <h3><span lang="EN-US">DWG informieren?</span></h3>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><span
                  lang="EN-US">Ticket#2021081310000199 of 13 Aug. 2021
                  “iD editor systematically damages data”. </span>Nach
                5 Wochen keine Reaktion.</p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"><b>Ergebnis:
                  null</b></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"> </p>
              <h3>OSMF kontaktieren?</h3>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing">Diese
                Mail: <i>Maschinenraum an Kommandobrücke: Treibstoff
                  beschädigt Motor. Was tun?</i></p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"> </p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"> </p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing">Beste
                Grüße</p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing">Robert
                Grübler (robhubi)</p>
              <p class="gmail-m_-7021401618754454568MsoNoSpacing"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            </div>
          </div>
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            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br>
        </blockquote>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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