<div dir="ltr">> If you can share advice on making SotM (& OSM) more open to people affected by this,<div>> I am open to hearing it. 🙂 What do you think we should do?</div><div><br></div><div>IMHO: There is no easy answer;<br><br>My thinking framework:<br><br><b>A.) Zero-Sum(fixed pie; win/lose) solutions:</b><br>- no change;<br>- choose by randomizations;<br>- lock the winners and the losers(as Amanda proposed); <br> <br>And we have to check the "second-order effects":<br>- resources? The trademark usage == (Sponsor money + OSMF technical and financial support)<br>- more cross-cultural conflicts? (antagonistic feelings towards "winners" ?) <br>- ...<br><br><br><b>B.) "True Inclusivity Strategy"; "Non-Zero-Sum"; "Win-Win"; "the size of the pie is not fixed" solutions.</b><br>motto: <i>'Inclusion is not an “us versus them” game. It’s a togetherness game where everybody should win.'</i><br><br>So What about inventing a "multiple continent/city" hybrid OSMF conference? <br>(a mix of multiple live places and virtual events)<br> <br>so in y2026 the OSM community members can choose:<br><font face="monospace">- Virtual [Day1,Day2,Day3,Day4] (via internet)<br>- Continent-A [Day1,Day2,Day3,Day4] (primary events) <br>- Continent-B [ Day3,Day4]<br>- Continent-C [ Day3,Day4]<br>- Continent-D [ Day3,Day4]<br>- Continent-E [ Day3,Day4]<br>- City-G [ Day2 ] watch-together + workshops<br>- City-H [ Day3 ] LMBTQ+ + watch-together + workshops<br>- City-I [ Day3 ] Islamic + watch-together + workshops (burqua allowed)<br>- City-J [ Day3 Day4] OSM Data Science + AI workshops<br>- City-N [ Day4] naturists mappers ( watch together in a "naturist safe place" )<br>- City-M [ Day4] Mandalorian Mappers watch-together (motto:"This is the Way")<br>- City-Vatican[ Day4] Christian mappers - watch-and-pray-together<br>- ...</font><br><br>in y2026: The OSM event cookbook is based on the forked version of <a href="https://discover-cookbook.numfocus.org/">https://discover-cookbook.numfocus.org/</a> <br>motto:<i> "You do not have to implement every suggestion in the cookbook in order to "qualify" as having a diverse and inclusive event!"</i><br>example suggestions: <a href="https://discover-cookbook.numfocus.org/02_minimal_measures/">https://discover-cookbook.numfocus.org/02_minimal_measures/</a><br> <br>in y2026: We have excellent Family/Partners/Spouse support in the events.<br>(it is important for the sustainable community)<br>- Allowing children (and spouses) to attend one or more social events.<br>- Creating a lot of map related games/workshops (Textil/painting/creativity/etc)<br> example: children mapping party in the Zoo!<br><a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07782-3">https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07782-3</a><br><a href="https://www.pnas.org/content/115/12/2845">https://www.pnas.org/content/115/12/2845</a><br><a href="https://www.smartmeetings.com/tips-tools/108263/low-cost-tips-for-family-friendly-conferences">https://www.smartmeetings.com/tips-tools/108263/low-cost-tips-for-family-friendly-conferences</a><br><br>in y2026: <br>- We have an "Inclusive leadership" program for the OSM community organizers. <br>- We have an "Ethical Data user" program<br>- We have an "Ethical OSM mapper" program<br>- We have "tools" for avoiding the "culture wars" ( in our community)<br>- We invented an "OSM-Speak" language; </div><div> This is based on English, designed to facilitate polite communication between OSM mappers;<br><br>Thanks for reading,<br> Imre<br><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Amanda McCann <<a href="mailto:amanda.mccann@osmfoundation.org">amanda.mccann@osmfoundation.org</a>> ezt írta (időpont: 2021. okt. 12., K, 23:24):<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">[to summarize my replies]<br>
<br>
I think there's a common misunderstanding, so I will clarify: I think it is acceptable for the State of the Map to take place in a venue that is unsafe to LGBTQ+ people *if there is no other alternative because that's what the region is like*. Under my proposal, you could have a “SotM Republic of Gilead”¹.<br>
<br>
On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 15:46 +02:00, Simon Poole <<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>> wrote:<br>
> what criteria must an event fulfil to be able to use the "State of the Map" brand. Conference <br>
> organizers that, for whatever reason, cannot meet those criteria could <br>
> still run an OSM related event with different branding and do without <br>
> OSMF blessing.<br>
<br>
Correct. For example, i don't think HOT should adopt this type of policy.<br>
<br>
On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 8:38 +02:00, Tim Couwelier <<a href="mailto:tim.couwelier@gmail.com" target="_blank">tim.couwelier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> does that rule out having official local chapters from certain areas?<br>
<br>
Absolutely not! We need more local chapters in general. This is just about the “State of the Map” name, and nothing about OSMF Local Chapters.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 9:42 +02:00, Martin Koppenhoefer <<a href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com" target="_blank">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Amanda, what about countries like Russia, where AFAIK the sexual <br>
> orientations you list are not illegal, but which aren’t exactly known <br>
> as safe space for members of these minorities either?<br>
<br>
On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 22:48 +02:00, Geoffrey Kateregga <<a href="mailto:kateregga1@gmail.com" target="_blank">kateregga1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> The point is, there is no country that favors everyone 100%, there will always be some challenges, LGBT laws<br>
<br>
On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 8:04 +02:00, Andrew Hain <<a href="mailto:andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk" target="_blank">andrewhainosm@hotmail.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
> we’d risk confining ourselves to a few “safe” parts of the world at the <br>
> expense of our wider community.<br>
<br>
On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 20:22 +02:00, Jorieke Vyncke <<a href="mailto:jorieke.vyncke@gmail.com" target="_blank">jorieke.vyncke@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> And a potential SotM Middle East, could that ever happen in any country of the region?<br>
<br>
On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 9:41 +02:00, Christopher Beddow <<a href="mailto:christopher.beddow@gmail.com" target="_blank">christopher.beddow@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Is this proposal saying that local mappers in Iran could not hold a <br>
> "State of the Map Iran" same as "State of the Map France" does<br>
<br>
My proposal allows “State of the Map Iran”. Since all places in the region (here “Iran”) have the same laws/societal actions, so no visitor would suffer a “legal downgrade”. I do not think it's fair or right to deny the active local community the ability to have a SotM (or other OSM event). There are times when a “State of the Map” event is unsafe for LGBTQ+ people.<br>
<br>
In my proposal, a SotM (REGION) can always take place in a country in that region, even if that would require the event to not be safe for LGBTQ people in the region. I do not think it is right to put that high a restriction. <br>
<br>
My proposed standard is very very low. There are many cities in “liberal” countries where people suffer bigoted violence. No-where is 100% safe, While I might have to think about whether to go to a “State of the Map Europe” in Russia, I do not think that the OSMF should prohibit that under my rule.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 8:47 +02:00, Stephan Knauss <<a href="mailto:osm@stephans-server.de" target="_blank">osm@stephans-server.de</a>> wrote:<br>
> I have mixed feelings about the level of political involvement OSMF <br>
> should do. Should we also care about environmental protection?<br>
<br>
On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 22:48 +02:00, Marie [OSM Cameroun] wrote:<br>
> if it is true that OSM is apolitical<br>
<br>
Someone already proposed an “OSMF will not pay expenses for air fare if there's a train option” (which failed). The OSM blog has been used to campaign against proposed EU laws. The OSMF has already picked a political side on LGBTQ+ issues when it adopted the Diversity Statement.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 22:48 +02:00, wrote:<br>
> if we organize an event in the USA and we all get shot by the police <br>
> because of our skin color what will we say? [...] should State of the Map be <br>
> removed from those countries, because its not easy for people to travel <br>
> to those locations? <br>
<br>
I'm more familiar with LGBTQ issues. I'm privileged with my current passport. If you can share advice on making SotM (& OSM) more open to people affected by this, I am open to hearing it. 🙂 What do you think we should do?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
PS: Paul out of habit used the wrong name, and did DM me to apologise. 🙂 It's fine, Paul's a good friend. He owes me a beer. But it's obvious when people _deliberately_ misgender & deadname others. 😒<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
[¹] Gilead is the fictional fundamentalist christian theocratic dystopia in Atwood's “The Handmaid's Tale”. In the book, women are legally forbidden from learning to read (punishment is amputation of a finger!), needless to say, it's not LGBTQ safe…<br>
<br>
On Wed, 06 Oct 2021 23:09 +02:00, Amanda McCann <<a href="mailto:amanda.mccann@osmfoundation.org" target="_blank">amanda.mccann@osmfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hello OSM friends,<br>
><br>
> So here's an idea... I've previously complained when an organisation <br>
> holds an event in a place where it's “illegal to be gay” and claim that <br>
> the event is a “safe space”. Since I'm on the OSMF Board, I would be <br>
> wrong for me to continue to complain about other organisations and not <br>
> try to suggest such a policy for the OSMF.<br>
><br>
> The OSMF grants a trademark licence (for the “State of the Map” <br>
> trademark which the OSMF legally owns) to regional event conferences, <br>
> and legally, the OSMF runs the annual State of the Map conference.<br>
><br>
> There are several different wordings of this policy possible. My <br>
> initial idea of a policy is: “you can't have a SotM for [REGION] in a <br>
> venue if same-sex sexual activity is illegal (& that's being enforced) <br>
> there, *and* there is a place in [REGION] where that is legal (or <br>
> illegal & not enforced)”. This covers bi/pan/queer/etc people.<br>
><br>
> I can't easily think of a simple rule for trans/gender identity issues <br>
> that's as clear cut for the very basic level (e.g. many countries have <br>
> required gender segregated toilets for a long time and the laws <br>
> requiring ”birth sex” are new and uncommon, legal gender recognition <br>
> might not be so relevant for a visitor, etc) so I'll stick to this for <br>
> now. I am OK with “State of the Map [COUNTRY]” happening in a country <br>
> where it's illegal everywhere. My goal is to prevent anyone having a <br>
> *legal downgrade* with “State of the Map”.<br>
><br>
> Many in OSM have spent a long time improving things for minoritized <br>
> groups, and maybe this is just another step in that process. I am only <br>
> mentioning “illegal to be gay” because it's a simple, clear standard. I <br>
> think it could be benefitial to include other standards too (e.g. I <br>
> believe some countries forbid women from driving). I am focussing on <br>
> LGBTQ+ issues because that affects me personally, and I know a lot <br>
> about it. I encourage other minoritized people to speak up if they want.<br>
><br>
> So what do yous, the wider OSM(F) community think about the OSMF <br>
> adopting this policy (or something like it, or not adopting anything <br>
> new policy)?<br>
<br>
-- <br>
A. McCann<br>
Secretary<br>
OpenStreetMap Foundation<br>
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