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Le 20/10/2022 à 10:27, Martin Koppenhoefer - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>
a écrit :<br>
>> To avoid the same tag identifying different features we
need to collectively set just one rule. "No two different mapped
features may be identified by the same tag"<br>
> this is assuming we all know what a feature is and how it is
defined/which are its core properties that must not miss. This is
not so often the case on a global level.<br>
<p>One basic requirement is to look if similar features exist and
how they're mapped. We don't need to know the whole approved tag
set for that, do we? Normally, standard users don't use the raw
API to describe new objects!</p>
<p>And rather use presets (explicitly or implicitly).<br>
</p>
<p>Yes there is a risk as mentioned by Frederik that it tends to
focus on a US-centric point of view.<br>
<br>
</p>
Le 20/10/2022 à 01:53, Craig Allan - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:allan@iafrica.com">allan@iafrica.com</a> a écrit :<br>
> to avoid the same tag identifying different features we need to
collectively set just one rule. "No two different mapped features
may be identified by the same tag"<br>
<p>Nope, well more precisely: "No two different mapped features may
be identified by the same tag set". I don't care if oneway=yes is
used on a highway or a waterway for instance. If noname=yes was
used on highway= but hasname=no on waterway=, you would make it
just harder.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
Le 20/10/2022 à 10:27, Martin Koppenhoefer - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>
a écrit :<br>
> A similar question: can you assume from a shop=butcher that
you’ll get a warm meal at lunchtime?<br>
Surely not. And the wiki says "A butcher sells meats that are
"cold", prepared or unprepared, in contrast to a <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Restaurant"
class="mw-redirect" title="Restaurant">restaurant</a> or a <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfast_food"
title="Tag:amenity=fast food">fast food restaurant</a> that sells
"hot" foo". <br>
<br>
<br>
Le 20/10/2022 à 10:59, Shawn K. Quinn - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:skquinn@rushpost.com">skquinn@rushpost.com</a> a écrit
:<br>
> You want to talk about jamming square pegs into round holes,
look at how we have to enter co-branded KFC/Taco Bell or
Dunkin'/Baskin-Robbins locations. (To do it "right" it's two
separate nodes even though they are the same location under the same
roof.)<br>
No need to create fictive nodes, brand=KFC;Taco Bell is the
solution, here again look at the wiki: "In case of several brands
use a <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator"
title="Semi-colon value separator">semicolon</a> as separator
(without space)."
<p><br>
Le 20/10/2022 à 03:40, Keitaroh Kobayashi - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:keita@kbys.me">keita@kbys.me</a> a écrit
:<br>
> By the way, I checked with some people in the OSM Japan
community, and it looks like they currently encourage using
relations for representing prefectural or national road status<br>
</p>
<p>Thanks, for the feedback.</p>
<p>It's a nice solution: 100% compatible by the tagging standard and
made by the community aware or made aware of the issue. Progresses
made in good faith.<br>
</p>
<p>Next step is to write it done on the wiki so that the average
Japanese maps it the now agreed way and that some rendering
engines render those road the traditional way.</p>
<p>About cafe/bar/pub: in an Irish pub I ordered a coffee. Looking
at the eyes looking at me I saw I made a mistake. So in theory you
can buy a coffee in an Irish pub. Don't expect anything or you
would be disappointed ;-). Don't try to avoid cultural difference.
Because English was lacking a word to make the difference between
pétoncles and coquilles saint-jacques, now In France any Pecten
instead of just Pecten Maximus can be sold as coquilles
saint-jacques (expect as fresh food). ;-(</p>
<p>Normally it should have been done the opposite way (use pétoncles
whatever the Pecten, and possibly use the taxon Maximus for
coquilles saint-jacques.<br>
Yes not an OSM tag issue but a very similar issue.</p>
<p><br>
Le 20/10/2022 à 18:10, Zeke Farwell - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ezekielf@gmail.com">ezekielf@gmail.com</a> a écrit :<br>
> There seems to be a feeling among many that open tagging and
standardisation are fundamentally incompatible. I do not see it
this way.</p>
<p>In some very specific parts of OSM we do have standards based on
norms: the open sea map tagging schema is based on the S-100
series (mostly S-101).<br>
</p>
<p>Even with strong norms, you can't avoid that depending on the
IALA region, buoys that have the SAME meaning have DIFFERENT
meaning: port side marks in IALA A regions are red, but port side
marks in IALA B regions are green,so we need to know in which part
of the world we are to interpret correctly the beacon. Ugly isn't
it? Probably they should have chosen 2 new colours for the
conflicting red/green conventions. But they haven't. At least they
are aware of that and if a mariner clicks on a buoy, the system
knowing the position of the buoy tell the mariner how to interpret
what he/she sees.<br>
</p>
<p>But as some new features arrive, they have created a kind of
node/line/area NEW OBJECT where you specify how to draw it on the
map.</p>
<p>So even with strong norms, you can't fix everything: a stable
norm is a dead/unused norm. And S-101 followed S-57.</p>
<p>What they did is that evolutions of S-101 should be easier than
those of S-57.</p>
<p>That pretty similar to OSM : try to stick to standards and if you
change them, you need transition paths.</p>
<p>Not making a public transport version 2 without thinking about
the migration of the good old data set was a bad idea.<br>
</p>
<p>Note: I may not be neutral as working in a company working on
nautical charts (and products around them).</p>
<p>And Martin is right: standardisation (with an s as the language
for OSM is British English, not American English) of tags is quite
similar to standardisation of a language.<br>
</p>
<p>Jean-Yvon<br>
</p>
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