<div dir="auto">Perhaps it is time to look at costs. Ten years ago the cost of electricity for a Windows server running 24 / 7 / 365 a year for three years was greater than the cost of the hardware and I don't believe that has changed much. Some other vendors say their systems are better than this but when you look at the cost per MIP their cost is higher. The machines themselves are more expensive.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">ARM based servers with their RISC architecture might do a little better.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So probably our greatest cost is electricity either directly or including cooling. There is a reason why many data farms are located where they are and the cost of electricity is one of the reasons.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Servers are difficult to size, in general you buy one with more capacity than you need.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Would running OSM in the cloud be cheaper? I'd probably go with Microsoft and switch to SQL Server but then we all have our personal preferences but mine are based on leading a team of DBAs looking after more than 100 servers running a variety of operating systems and databases.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The second thing I'd look at is the efficiency of getting money from donators to OSM. PayPal takes a cut on the way and a more hidden cut in the exchange rate.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Bank wires are expensive at both ends. Within Canada we can do low cost interact transfers, within the UK again payments into a bank account are low cost and very fast.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">One thought would be talk nicely to one of the charities that gives us some funds today. Sometimes these funds can be earmarked for a particular project. Mapping? Perhaps and let people wishing to donate to OSM donate via. xyz charity.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 17, 2023, 10:24 Allan Mustard <<a href="mailto:allan@mustard.net">allan@mustard.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Well, I must disagree
with you, Steve. The conference is a side issue and was not a
function of the Board of Directors or its members, so it's not
fair to pin lack of a SOTM this year on the Board.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Now, as to the costs,
the community survey conducted in 2021 showed that just over 81
percent of respondents approved or strongly approved of the
Board’s decision to begin raising funds via large donations.
Only 4.3% disapproved or strongly disapproved. The reasons for
this attitude were reflected in the priorities the community
voted for, with the top priority being reliability and stability
of the platform. This community response drove the Board's
decision to contract for services of a site reliability engineer
(to ensure system reliability) and to take over the cost of a
software developer (the ID developer contract) when previous
sponsors of that work withdrew. Just over three quarters of
respondents to the survey approved of the contract to engage a
full‐time iD maintainer. About 5.9% of respondents disapproved
or strongly disapproved. In short, there was overwhelming
support for the Board decisions that created these financial
obligations.[1]</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">As an aside, support
from Foundation members mirrored support from the community as a
whole. The differences in mean responses amounted to a few
hundredths of a percent.[1]<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Further, 81.4% of
respondents approved or strongly approved of the Board’s funding
of short‐term grants to upgrade Nominatim, osm2pgsql, and
Potlatch. Slightly under 4 percent disapproved or strongly
disapproved. This was the least controversial feedback question
in the 2021 survey. [1]</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I don't see here a
"bailout" but rather a concerted effort to a) establish a better
budgeting process so OSMF can better support community and
Foundation member priorities, b) better stage ourselves to be a
"map of the world that anyone can use" that is the first map of
choice, while adhering to the proven concepts of crowd sourcing
and volunteerism (for which we thank you, Steve), and c)
constrain growth in financial obligations, based on the draft
strategic plan on which Craig Allan, Sarah Hoffman, and I are
working, the outline of which has been out for public comment
since 2021.[2] [3]<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">My two manats' worth.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">cheers,<br>
Allan Mustard </font><br>
<br>
</p>
[1]
<a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/4/44/2021_OSMF_survey_summary_stats.ods" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/4/44/2021_OSMF_survey_summary_stats.ods</a><br>
[2] <a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Strategic_Plan_2023_Cycle" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Strategic_Plan_2023_Cycle</a><br>
[3]
<a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Strategic_Plan_Outline#Preamble" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Strategic_Plan_Outline#Preamble</a>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 3/17/2023 9:02 AM, Steve Coast
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
I’m also highlighting the incompetence of the OSMF. If they can’t
run a conference, or cut costs, does it make any sense at all to
send them boat loads of money?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It’s pretty clear to some audiences at least that we need to
rethink the OSMF, not bail them out:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="display:block">
<div style="display:inline-block" role="link"><a style="border-radius:10px;font-family:-apple-system,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;display:block;width:300px;overflow:hidden;text-decoration:none" rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://twitter.com/stevec/status/1636525391350480896?s=46&t=puDs0lWV9Yc38mk7hFGn-Q" dir="ltr" role="button" width="300" target="_blank">
<table style="table-layout:fixed;border-collapse:collapse;width:300px;background-color:#ebf7ff;font-family:-apple-system,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" width="300" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>
<div style="margin:10px 16px 0px 16px;color:#000000;font-weight:300;text-align:left;width:268px;font-size:11pt;word-wrap:break-word;overflow:hidden">
The @openstreetmap Foundation seems to in some
kind of zombie/failure state and needs a reboot.
Agree? https://t.co/GWMlJ4pHYO #OpenStreetMap</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<table style="font-family:-apple-system,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;table-layout:fixed;background-color:rgba(235,247,255,1)" width="300" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#EBF7FF">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:6px 0px 6px 16px" width="25">
<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://twitter.com/stevec/status/1636525391350480896?s=46&t=puDs0lWV9Yc38mk7hFGn-Q" target="_blank"><img style="display:inline-block;width:25px;height:25px;border-radius:3px" alt="twitter.2.ico" width="25" height="25"></a></td>
<td style="padding:8px 0px 8px 0px">
<div style="max-width:100%;margin:0px 16px 0px 10px;overflow:hidden">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;font-weight:500;font-size:12px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left">
<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://twitter.com/stevec/status/1636525391350480896?s=46&t=puDs0lWV9Yc38mk7hFGn-Q" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><font style="color:rgba(0,0,0,1)" color="#000000">stevecoast.eth</font></a></div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;font-weight:400;font-size:11px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left">
<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://twitter.com/stevec/status/1636525391350480896?s=46&t=puDs0lWV9Yc38mk7hFGn-Q" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><font style="color:rgba(60,60,67,0.6)" color="#A2A2A9">twitter.com</font></a></div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</a></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div dir="ltr">Best
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Steve</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 17, 2023, at 1:25 AM, Simon
Poole <a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><simon@poole.ch></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>Steve is just being snarky. <br>
</p>
<p>- historically the surplus from conferences was
essentially the OSMFs sole source of non-earmarked funds.
However that hasn't been true for quite a long time.</p>
<p>- corporation tax is due on all such activities
(conferences, merch etc), and yes when you are selling
something to somebody you have to provide them with the
goods etc. (aka more expenses).<br>
</p>
<p>Conferences are not likely to go away as one source of
funds for the OSMF, however scaling the activities so that
they could conceivably produce half a million post tax
would seem to be a very tall order.</p>
<p>Simon<br>
</p>
<div>Am 17.03.2023 um 01:26 schrieb
john whelan:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">I think this idea has merit. I also think
there should be a way for even a small business to use
OSM to display their location. That way it can be a
business expense rather than a questionable donation?
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Are we set up as a charity in any
country? Normally I would expect to get a deduction
on my tax bill if I donate to a charity but only if it
is a Canadian registered charity.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 16, 2023,
20:15 Steve Coast <<a href="mailto:steve@stevecoast.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">steve@stevecoast.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="line-break:after-white-space">My idea
would be to have some kind of conference event,
where sponsors could pay to get priority speaking
slots and booths.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>They could get their logo prominently displayed
on the website, and on, say, a conference t-shirt.
The pricing could be set to both cover the
conference but also there could be large leftover
funds to run the foundation if it were well
managed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One of the many advantages of this is that
companies often find it easier to fund something
if there is a reason, something they get in
exchange, like conference slots and so on, rather
than throwing money in to an eternal black hole,
with nothing to show for it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps someone has had this idea already or
even implemented it in the past?</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Another idea could be to somehow lower
costs, perhaps by removing unnecessary or
superfluous costs which may have grown
dramatically over time. Or perhaps by making
sure OSMF costs only directly benefit OSM,
instead of, say, offering mapping services for
free to the entire internet, or paying for
people and associated costs which could be
replaced by ChatGPT or Excel.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A good starting point for such discussions
could be, what is the money specifically going
towards, and why is OSMF spending it that way?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If OSMF got a very large donation, say in
the form of cryptocurrency, that donation
could be used to hedge cost variations over
time and ensure continuity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Steve</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Mar 16, 2023, at 12:17 PM, Mikel
Maron <<a href="mailto:mikel.maron@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">mikel.maron@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p style="margin-top:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15.008px">For
2023, the OSMF Board has
decided to target a balanced
budget. Given our expected
income and expenses, there
is a gap of approximately
500K GBP that we need to
fundraise for.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15.008px"><a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board/Minutes/2023-02-09#On_2023_budget" style="background-color:transparent" rel="nofollow noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board/Minutes/2023-02-09#On_2023_budget</a></p>
<p style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15.008px">In
the fall, we started
planning for this by taking
part in a workshop on
fundraising strategy and
operations <a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board/Minutes/2022-10#Fundraising_workshops" style="background-color:transparent" rel="nofollow noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Board/Minutes/2022-10
- OpenStreetMap Foundation</a>.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15.008px">What
has been clear is that we
need a diversified campaign
engaging wide community for
small amounts, and target
larger asks to businesses
and major giving from
individuals. This needs to
be organized and executed
effectively – there is a lot
of communication, outreach,
development of new
mechanisms for giving, etc.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15.008px">We
are considering contracting
an experience consultant who
is already engaged in
OpenStreetMap community to
assist us in this process.
The usual set up for such is
a small percentage fee of
what’s raised. They would
work closely with the Board
and fundraising committee,
as well as share details of
process publicly in regular
diary entries. All of this
is designed in mind to make
the fundraising campaign
reflect how we work as a
community. We think this is
low risk, high reward, and
that dedicated attention to
fundraising is necessary to
make it successful.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15.008px">We’ll
need everyone’s help as well
– from getting the word out,
creatively engaging
potential donors, to making
asks, to of course kicking
in a bit of money too.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:15.008px">Please
share viewpoints here, or if
you prefer directly with <a href="mailto:board@osmfoundation.org" style="background-color:transparent" rel="nofollow noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">board@osmfoundation.org</a>.
We will receive your input
over the next week until
March 22.</p>
</div>
-Mikel</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207
@mikel s:mikelmaron</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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