[Rebuild] Update on progress
Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net
Thu Apr 19 10:13:49 BST 2012
At 2012-04-18 09:36, Richard Weait wrote:
>have specific, real world data example that you think will make
>interesting test cases, please present them on the rebuild list.
I don't know about interesting, but this chunk of the Los Angeles-area city
of Glendale has plenty of potential data loss: minlat='34.1'
minlon='-118.3' maxlat='34.2' maxlon='-118.2'
According to JOSM and the licensing plugin:
Total objects 3912 35909
Data Loss 1013 (26%) 4734 (13%)
Possible Data Loss 582 (15%) 2133 (6%)
Here's a pic of part of this area in JOSM now:
and here's a pic after deleting the ways and nodes in the "Data Loss"
category of the license change plugin:
I think I speak for all locals when I say this is an unacceptable amount of
loss. If you look at the Geofabrik maps, you will see that this is
basically what's going to happen to the whole Los Angeles area. Is that
really acceptable - to have a fairly important city of the world become
completely unusable in the map? A large part of it (is there a tool to see
how much?) is because of the inability of the LWG (or whoever) to find a
way for the contributions of a single mapper (you know who it is, or can
easily see) to be licensable. As I understand it, his objection is not
unreasonable, and I can see ways in which a mutually acceptable solution
could be found, too (as it was for balrog-kun and DaveHansen TIGER).
>Once the tests are passing on the expanded test data, the schedule
>will return to the previously announced phases; Limited bounding box
>tests, larger test areas, then the rest of the planet. Those phases
>will be announced with as much notice as possible, consistent with
>progressing with limited delay. You can appreciate that both of those
>are desirable while also being in tension with each other.
Sure, except that most of us do not understand the weight that "limited
delay" has been given in this. I can certainly understand that those who
are working tirelessly on the redaction project want to see it done with so
they can get on with their lives, but at the same time, is it OK to (likely
for an indefinite period of time*) damage large, important** swaths of the
map by just charging ahead when we haven't had sufficient time to prevent it?
The 3 days or so notice that was originally given for the server migration
(and the difference between what "read-only" ended up meaning and what most
inferred) was not enough when we thought that the redaction would proceed
immediately afterwards. I would encourage notice of at least one week, and
then subject to finding a reasonable solution to the data loss problem.
>We'll update rebuild weekly, until completion, even if only to say
>"still working on the tests".
Please and thank you!
>Watch the rebuild list or #osm IRC channel.
I would encourage you to send it to the other lists (at least talk) as
well. IRC is not a reasonable signal/noise ratio for most of us.
* As mentioned, we've already lost at least one huge contributor. If the
map will be as damaged as I think, I am as likely as not to go away, too,
as the project has not fulfilled its obligation to be a reasonable steward
of my (substantial) work. As much as some think there will be these huge
crowds of people wanting to map, this simply has not turned out to be the
case. I believe the map cannot be anywhere near usable without large
contributors, and we "don't grow on trees". All we ask is respect for our
time - something which has not been given us, regardless of intent.
** I don't mean to imply that any part of the world is more important to
humanity than any other part - simply that the number of people likely to
want to use a map of Los Angeles is larger than the number wanting to use a
map of smaller and/or less populous places. This is important to gaining
any sort of widespread support. I also see that much of Europe is in danger
as well, and this is perhaps even more important socially for areas that
are not well-mapped by other sources.
Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.net>
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