<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>We haven't decided on a regular schedule again ... I'll be in the IRC room today at 4pm GMT.</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div>After this week, I'm travelling for Feb and a good part of Mar ... so we'll need a Chair.</div><div> </div><div>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Kate Chapman <kate@maploser.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Dermot McNally
<dermotm@gmail.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Mikel Maron <mikel_maron@yahoo.com>; "strategic@openstreetmap.org" <strategic@openstreetmap.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 3, 2012 12:00 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Strategic] 2012<br> </font> </div> <br>
Is there a meeting tomorrow? Or is it next week?<br><br>My dates are all confused since we got a slow start to the new year.<br><br>-Kate<br><br>On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Dermot McNally <<a ymailto="mailto:dermotm@gmail.com" href="mailto:dermotm@gmail.com">dermotm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Hi Mikel,<br>><br>> Sorry for overlooking your earlier mail on this. I can pick this up,<br>> with the caveat that I've burnt midnight oil, am off to bed about now<br>> and will therefore probably have it finished not that long before the<br>> meeting start tomorrow.<br>><br>> So if anyone else plans to pick it up, say so here and I won't bother,<br>> otherwise I'll take care of it.<br>><br>> Cheers,<br>> Dermot<br>><br>> On 2 February 2012 20:38, Mikel Maron <<a ymailto="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com" href="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com">mikel_maron@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> Hi
Strategic<br>>><br>>> Would anyone be willing to compile together the discussion from the thread,<br>>> and the irc chat, into a rough draft 2012 plan for SWG?<br>>><br>>> For the things that don't seem to be settled yet, it would be totally cool<br>>> to highlight the field of play on the issue.<br>>><br>>> -Mikel<br>>><br>>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br>>><br>>> ________________________________<br>>> From: Mikel Maron <<a ymailto="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com" href="mailto:mikel_maron@yahoo.com">mikel_maron@yahoo.com</a>><br>>> To: Dermot McNally <<a ymailto="mailto:dermotm@gmail.com" href="mailto:dermotm@gmail.com">dermotm@gmail.com</a>>; Frederik Ramm <<a ymailto="mailto:frederik@remote.org" href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a>><br>>> Cc: "<a ymailto="mailto:strategic@openstreetmap.org"
href="mailto:strategic@openstreetmap.org">strategic@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a ymailto="mailto:strategic@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:strategic@openstreetmap.org">strategic@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>>> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:29 AM<br>>> Subject: Re: [Strategic] 2012<br>>><br>>> Hi ... IRC log attached. Will upload to wiki soon, but swamped right now.<br>>><br>>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br>>><br>>> ________________________________<br>>> From: Dermot McNally <<a ymailto="mailto:dermotm@gmail.com" href="mailto:dermotm@gmail.com">dermotm@gmail.com</a>><br>>> To: Frederik Ramm <<a ymailto="mailto:frederik@remote.org" href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a>><br>>> Cc: <a ymailto="mailto:strategic@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:strategic@openstreetmap.org">strategic@openstreetmap.org</a><br>>> Sent: Monday,
January 30, 2012 8:38 AM<br>>> Subject: Re: [Strategic] 2012<br>>><br>>> Hi Frederik,<br>>><br>>> I'll try to address your questions:<br>>><br>>> On 30 January 2012 08:32, Frederik Ramm <<a ymailto="mailto:frederik@remote.org" href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>>> who was present in Friday's IRC meeting?<br>>>><br>>>> (Not wanting to nag since I know minutes are a pain, but I would have<br>>>> checked myself on<br>>>><br>>>> http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#Strategic_Working_Group<br>>>> if there had been any more recent minutes/logs than 2nd December 2012.)<br>>><br>>> Firstly on the apparent minutes backlog - what that in fact represents<br>>> is a meeting backlog, as SWG hadn't got back into the habit of meeting<br>>> since the Christmas
break. Not ideal, but it's worth being clear that<br>>> there has not been a batch of unminuted meetings.<br>>><br>>> As to the attendees, I have neither a firm list nor a complete IRC<br>>> transcript. Mikel chaired, but it took him 10 minutes after the usual<br>>> start time to get a reaction from other participants (that was when I<br>>> spotted that there was in fact activity), during which time he had<br>>> begun to compose his Friday email, which he intended to send in lieu<br>>> of the meeting, so that the next meeting could take place in the<br>>> framework of a planned list of topics, seeded by his email and<br>>> enriched by contributions from others.<br>>><br>>> It may be that Mikel has the IRC transcript and could post it as a<br>>> "best set" of minutes, but in effect, after our late start with a<br>>> small group, we resolved instead to discuss those items
that we felt<br>>> should be on agenda for SWG in 2012. I agreed to send my followup mail<br>>> by way of communicating the matters discussed at the meeting.<br>>><br>>> Participants who were certainly present: Me, Mikel, apmon, TomH.<br>>> Others please shout if I have overlooked you. Mikel, do you have the<br>>> complete transcript? I have only the very tail end which RichardF<br>>> happened still to have in his buffer.<br>>><br>>>> On 01/30/12 00:55, Dermot McNally wrote:<br>>>>><br>>>>> Arising once again because of the switch2osm campaign: Confront the<br>>>>> issue of where users wishing to use OSM instead of other providers<br>>>>> should get their services. Base assumption (also for discussion): That<br>>>>> there should be suitable map services for such users, that it should<br>>>>> be a strategic goal to ensure this
become so. This is without<br>>>>> prejudice to the question of who should operate the services.<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> I have difficulty in parsing the above.<br>>>><br>>>> Is there already a definition of what is "suitable", or is defining the<br>>>> "suitability" something that is part of SWG's role? If the latter, is<br>>>> there<br>>>> already an idea of what is "suitable" or is this copletely open?<br>>><br>>> Completely open, including the definition of suitability. Both this<br>>> list item and switch2osm arise out of the (granted not universal in<br>>> the project) principle that we want end users to use our data instead<br>>> of other map data, among other reasons, because we see that as<br>>> demonstrating relevance in ways that will attract a bigger and more<br>>> useful community.<br>>><br>>> So in
accepting this into the SWG plan for the year, we are resolving<br>>> to consider this issue, with all possible outcomes open, including the<br>>> possibility that we will decide that nothing new needs to be done.<br>>><br>>>> (Is SWG looking for an one-fits-all definition of "suitable" or is it<br>>>> possible that different tile services are "suitable" for different users?)<br>>><br>>> Granted it hasn't been discussed yet, just accepted as a topic, but<br>>> I'll peep into my own crystal ball and suggest that not only different<br>>> tile servers will prove important, but also different data extraction<br>>> services, search engines, geocoders, routing engines, JavaScript<br>>> slippy map embedders, whatever. If other map services are providing<br>>> them and end users rely on them, we should be considering whether the<br>>> OSM world does, should or could offer them
too.<br>>><br>>>> Would that then mean that SWG would evaulate whether the services already<br>>>> listed on <a href="http://switch2osm.org/providers/" target="_blank">http://switch2osm.org/providers/</a> are "suitable", and if it is<br>>>> found they are not, endeavour to create "suitable" services?<br>>><br>>> I'd be more cautious and go with "cause/encourage to be created". But<br>>> certainly, if a service doesn't exist and we come to the conclusion<br>>> that it ought to, that does identify a vacuum that it becomes our task<br>>> to see filled.<br>>><br>>>> Does "it should be a strategic goal to ensure this *become* so" mean that<br>>>> an<br>>>> evaluation has already been made and the existing services have been found<br>>>> to be not "suitable"?<br>>><br>>> No, no evaluation has been made, and this would need to feature in
how<br>>> we address the issue. Informally, it does seem like an awful lot of<br>>> users are not finding an OSM solution to their problem in spaces where<br>>> it seems like they could be helped, though.<br>>><br>>>> Is "the existing services are good enough and the market is going to do<br>>>> the<br>>>> rest" still a possible outcome of the analysis, or have SWG already<br>>>> decided<br>>>> that OSMF needs to either operate their own commercial tileserver or<br>>>> contract someone to do so?<br>>><br>>> The former is still a possible outcome - albeit, probably with a lot<br>>> more provision of information to end-users, in the spirit of<br>>> switch2osm.<br>>><br>>><br>>> Dermot<br>>><br>>> --<br>>> --------------------------------------<br>>> Igaühel on siin oma laul<br>>> ja ma oma ei leiagi
üles<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Strategic mailing list<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:Strategic@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:Strategic@openstreetmap.org">Strategic@openstreetmap.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/strategic" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/strategic</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> --------------------------------------<br>> Igaühel on siin oma laul<br>> ja ma oma ei leiagi üles<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Strategic mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:Strategic@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:Strategic@openstreetmap.org">Strategic@openstreetmap.org</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/strategic" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/strategic</a><br><br><br>
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