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I'm resending this because the lists, which are tables, are garbage
in the log.<br>
The source of the HTML message is displayed (unformatted).<br>
I complained, but they replied that my complaint is "invalid" !!!<br>
(Shouldn't we open a freely accessible Gmail account to log the
list?)<br>
Sorry for the noise. I'll be back later. MANY THANKS SO FAR!<br>
---------------------------<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
Please do not only reply technically (once), please state your
preferences (sort of poll).<br>
<br>
This is how, traditionally, municipalities, provinces, ...,
countries, continents are traced.<br>
<br>
A: The land area is a polygon relation assembling the border pieces,
with following tags:<br>
type=boundary<br>
admin_level=8, or 7, or ... for municipality, or province, or ...<br>
name=* (e.g. town or country)<br>
... others describing the area, such as postal code, ...<br>
<br>
B: This is how a boundary way (border line piece) is tagged:<br>
boundary=administrative<br>
admin_level=8, or 7, or ... <br>
name=?<br>
plus possible non-boundary data indicating material object such as
waterway=*<br>
<br>
1) While the A name= of the relation is the name of the area, such
as London or Wales, the possible B name has nothing to do with the
area. The B name can be that of a river, of a road, or the border
piece can be immaterial or chosen not to be represent the physical
way.<br>
If the border line is immaterial, the name, if any, can be chosen
perfectly arbitrarily and serves only to identify the border line at
best when you look at configuration data or on the map.<br>
<br>
It seems that the best identification is the pair of names of the
smallest area on each side: municipality1 — municipality2. A hint
of that appears clearly when you watch or make a 3-border point and
notice that the border names are M1-M2, M2-M3 and M3-M1, anything
else is an error.<br>
Some persons say that this naming must follow the same rule (below)
as admin-level : "highest level wins". The question is then: how
many municipality boundary pieces must be named Europe — Asia and is
that name a good identification?<br>
However, knowing that the boundary piece is of a high level may be
considered important. In that case, M1 - M2 (Europe — Asia) is an
option too. (...) is optional.<br>
<br>
Q1: which naming of border line piece do you consider valid and
which do you prefer?<br>
Q1a: Municipality1 — Municipality2?<br>
Q1b: Highest-level1 — Highest-level2 (Europe — Asia)<br>
Q1c: Municipality1 — Municipality2 (Highest-level1 — Highest-level2)
?<br>
Q1d: nothing<br>
Q1e: you're inventive...<br>
<br>
2) The admin_level itself is redundant in ways. It is in fact
contained in the boundary relations, and as it possibly has multiple
values if the border is for several area levels. Hence, that number
not only seems unnecessary but also meaningless. I wonder how long
that "FIXME level must not be 4" has been on the English border (and
why it doesn't say what it should be, instead).<br>
<br>
Q2: do you see any use for that apparently useless number? Could it
be omitted?<br>
<br>
3) One can make routes of routes, that is, relations of relations.<br>
Or, at least, routes of hiking routes. It seems that the recursion
support is an application matter.<br>
And we're ruled by chickens and eggs.<br>
Hiking software has implemented recursion, then hiking routes, then
more software.<br>
How extended is the recursion support of routes?<br>
Could it be used for boundaries?<br>
<br>
In the example below, the long series of many Liège - Verviers
pieces could be a single route made of M1-M2, M2-M3, M3-M4 ...
municipality pieces and itself be called Liège - Verviers, which in
turn would participate in the now 4 parts of boundary Liège, all
that like матрёшки.<br>
And the border Europe - Asia would be made of a reasonable number of
countries C1-C2, C2-C3, C3-C4, ... instead of an incalculable number
of municipalities.<br>
<br>
Q3a: can boundary recursion be made?<br>
Q3b: else, would you like it to be done?<br>
Q3c: do you prefer eggs or chicken?<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
Real examples:<br>
<br>
Q1a: a border around a municipality. All pieces identified by
municipalities.<br>
<br>
<table cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491"
title="">Sprimont — Theux (181023491)</a><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347"
title="">Sprimont — Pepinster (180849347)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180867020"
title="">Sprimont — Trooz (180867020)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182800464"
title="">Chaudfontaine — Sprimont (182800464)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863558"
title="">Sprimont — Esneux (180863558)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863555"
title="">Sprimont — Comblain-au-Pont (180863555)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863549"
title="">Sprimont — Aywaille (180863549)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
Q1b: same when 2 pieces belong to higher level border
Liège-Verviers.<br>
2 pieces clearly identified only by number.<br>
<br>
<table cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181023491)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347"
title="">Liège — Verviers (180849347)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180867020"
title="">Sprimont — Trooz (180867020)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182800464"
title="">Chaudfontaine — Sprimont (182800464)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863558"
title="">Sprimont — Esneux (180863558)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863555"
title="">Sprimont — Comblain-au-Pont (180863555)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863549"
title="">Sprimont — Aywaille (180863549)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
The higher level boundary for Liège sharing 2 pieces with the above.<br>
The only clearly identifiable piece, Saint-Georges-sur-Meuse —
Flémalle, is a mistake.<br>
<br>
<table cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182607521"
title="">Région wallonne — Flandre (182607521)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/98128097"
title="">Région wallonne — Flandre (98128097)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/49802172"
title="">Pays-Bas — Belgique (49802172)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/43301253"
title="">Pays-Bas — Belgique (43301253)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/49799253"
title="">Région wallonne — Flandre (49799253)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180023024"
title="">Région wallonne — Flandre (180023024)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/159090121"
title="">Région wallonne — Flandre (159090121)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/178851024"
title="">Région wallonne — Flandre (178851024)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/178939669"
title="">Région wallonne — Flandre (178939669)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/98128156"
title="">Région wallonne — Flandre (98128156)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177576198"
title="">Liège — Waremme (177576198)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177576195"
title="">Liège — Waremme (177576195)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/178170434"
title="">Liège — Waremme (178170434)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177387110"
title="">Liège — Waremme (177387110)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/176217505"
title="">Liège — Waremme (176217505)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177706421"
title="">Saint-Georges-sur-Meuse — Flémalle (177706421)</a>
<br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177706422"
title="">Liège — Huy (177706422)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183519658"
title="">Liège — Huy (183519658)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183519659"
title="">Liège — Huy (183519659)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183512829"
title="">Liège — Huy (183512829)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181209035"
title="">Liège — Huy (181209035)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183083917"
title="">Liège — Huy (183083917)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183306446"
title="">Liège — Huy (183306446)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183083915"
title="">Liège — Huy (183083915)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181334315"
title="">Liège — Huy (181334315)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181325568"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181325568)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023490"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181023490)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181023491)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347"
title="">Liège — Verviers (180849347)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181024761"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181024761)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181028658"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181028658)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181028757"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181028757)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181029539"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181029539)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181032538"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181032538)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181032537"
title="">Liège — Verviers (181032537)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182602419"
title="">Liège — Verviers (182602419)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/179676526"
title="">Liège — Verviers (179676526)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
Q1c: same municipality, showing both information.<br>
<br>
<table cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491"
title="">Sprimont — Theux (</a><a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491"
title="">Liège — Verviers) (181023491)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347"
title="">Sprimont — Pepinster (</a><a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347"
title="">Liège — Verviers) (180849347)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180867020"
title="">Sprimont — Trooz (180867020)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182800464"
title="">Chaudfontaine — Sprimont (182800464)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863558"
title="">Sprimont — Esneux (180863558)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863555"
title="">Sprimont — Comblain-au-Pont (180863555)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863549"
title="">Sprimont — Aywaille (180863549)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
Q1d: part of the English border:<br>
<br>
<table cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421630"
title="">28421630</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421629"
title="">28421629</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421627"
title="">28421627</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/132078258"
title="">132078258</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/132078261"
title="">France — Royaume-Uni (132078261)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421878"
title="">28421878</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421876"
title="">28421876</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160784084"
title="">160784084</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421874"
title="">28421874</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160784081"
title="">160784081</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421873"
title="">28421873</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421872"
title="">28421872</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421871"
title="">28421871</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421868"
title="">28421868</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421864"
title="">28421864</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421861"
title="">28421861</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421857"
title="">28421857</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421855"
title="">28421855</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421853"
title="">28421853</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421852"
title="">28421852</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160696657"
title="">160696657</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160696656"
title="">160696656</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160696653"
title="">160696653</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39498765"
title="">39498765</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/46095782"
title="">46095782</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27336844"
title="waterway=river">River Wye (27336844)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27336799"
title="">27336799</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way historic Roman Road">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/165549422"
title="historic=Roman Road">165549422</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/165549409"
title="">165549409</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27336687"
title="waterway=river">River Wye (27336687)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28216462"
title="">28216462</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28216457"
title="waterway=river">River Wye (28216457)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28216456"
title="">28216456</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706463"
title="waterway=river">River Monnow (23706463)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706466"
title="">23706466</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706487"
title="waterway=river">River Monnow (23706487)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/10493523"
title="waterway=river">River Monnow (10493523)</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706490"
title="">23706490</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706510"
title="waterway=river">23706510</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way ">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706509"
title="">23706509</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706512"
title="waterway=river">23706512</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="way waterway river">Way <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45719801"
title="waterway=river">45719801</a> <br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
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<br>
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