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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2013-02-22 12:10, Janko Mihelić
wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAA=vpS_GhxeeOrKmAQZ7U_zPr4U9CS+mdjThgdgcfsSMtMSJ9g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">I'm not entirely sure I understood your question, but
you shouldn't map non-ways. Routers could be developed that route
through non-ways, if there is no cliff or something else in the
way. A router could route along the contour lines, to make the
hike through forest easier. But if there is no path, don't map it.<br>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2013-02-22 14:05, Volker Schmidt
wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CALQ-OR6oLtQgGx7j2mOv+jNFo9tbB4doH0U0H-myWg0HtyVOsQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">It happens often on mountain hiking routes. You have a
signpost with the red-white sign of the Alpine Club that indicates
the direction that you have to take across a meadow, for example.
On the other side you have to find a corresponding sign. In
between there may not be any visible path. In that case I would
happily put a highway=path with surface=grass as a straight line
across the meadow.<br>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2013-02-23 12:56, Martin
Koppenhoefer wrote :
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABPTjTAXFeQTTpbG7j2xVMW4x+j9by0wyxvmhaYdQucjjrrdcA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">maybe add the key "informal"=yes to the path? I do
this for
"spontaneous" ways and it is also documented in the wiki:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal</a><br>
</blockquote>
And the other suggestions, many thanks, sorry for not listing them
all.<br>
I'm looking for a general feature, not only a solution to my
particular problem.<br>
<br>
A non-way is not the best word to describe my idea and I also do not
feel comfortable with it.<br>
It's sort of a "secret [winding] little passage" that one must
follow on demand.<br>
So, more than "informal=yes" (which I don't understand well), it
would be a straight "exists=no".<br>
How could it be mapped, sort of dotted line, so that the human
understands that he may follow a route for which there's no path
under the conditions otherwise described (no cars in a meadow)?<br>
But how could the automated router know if it must or not follow
that secret passage?<br>
Mind boggling, it needs more information.<br>
And these thoughts led to the following reasoning...<br>
<br>
In making a route (the relation), we are actually not mapping
something (creating new map objects). We are relating existing
objects of the map to be highlighted to show, well, a route to
follow (other relations similar).<br>
And it may, for many various reasons of which you found more, happen
to be NO objects in the map to highlight and follow. So, this
problem is just, within the queue, aka file, of members making up
the route, to indicate somehow: this gap is not a mistake ("page
intentionally left blank", JOSM don't complain): it means that you
just must manage to go from here to there the best way you see fit,
<span id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps">para-gliders
included</span></span> (1).<br>
The first idea was to fill the gap with a dummy, but the second
thought is that we simply could use the end nodes of the two ways
the gap is striding to do so.<br>
One node, repeated next to the way it belongs to, would have role <i><b>gap_start</b></i>,
the other one <i><b>gap_end</b></i>.<br>
Or <i><b>jum</b></i><i><b>p_start</b></i>, <i><b>jump_end</b></i>
(1).<br>
No dummies needed.<br>
<br>
Human routers (mapping a hike) just assemble these special
instructions among the members.<br>
Automated routers are driven by a human who simply breaks the route
in segments (making "via" points), one of which uses no car, bike or
pilgrim type but that funny little flying bird as the segment
routing type. By definition of the crow segment, the router makes it
of only two gap-start and gap-end nodes (it may use more nodes and,
magically, we reinvent the GPS trace (we might use <i><b>track_point</b></i>
instead of gap_*, but that would lessen the possibility to detect
routes broken by less capable editors).<br>
<br>
I think it's a rather simple, best value for money, addition to the
OSM tags I let you discuss.<br>
<br>
To end my practical story, not only do the hike instructions loosely
say that the hike starts and ends in the parking place (which is
obviously the car segment of the hike!) but the bird segment starts
wandering north in a drunkard fashion where there is no path, even
breaking its way through the limit of an alleged cemetery.<br>
I simply started on the road alongside the parking and cheated my
way trough a small street detour.<br>
They call that a <strike>wal</strike>workaround ;-)<br>
<br>
Cheers, <br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
(1) Yet another real case of possible exists=no routes coming to my
mind errr... BTW.<br>
Ski routes too. Endless.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAA=vpS_GhxeeOrKmAQZ7U_zPr4U9CS+mdjThgdgcfsSMtMSJ9g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/2/21 A.Pirard.Papou <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:A.Pirard.Papou@gmail.com" target="_blank">A.Pirard.Papou@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hello world,<br>
<br>
It can happen for a hiking route, maybe others, to go across
a non-way. One may for example get people across some land
without a path or officially start and end a hike in the
middle of a parking lot.<br>
What must we do:<br>
<ul>
<li>create a pseudo way and what are the tags?</li>
<li>more likely, leave a gap in the route relation, filled
with some element saying "fly to connect"?</li>
</ul>
<p>The crow may be supposed to fly loosely following the
roads too if router software is unable to make a correct
route or simply if the user insists on being a crow. This
is not a mapping issue, but the solution can be the same
if the router builds the same relation as ours as the
output of its result.<br>
I suggested several sites to add a flying bird to car,
bike and man to be chosen independently per segment.<br>
</p>
This (unable), in addition to map bugs, is the case when
using say the Google router with an OSM map display. e.g. <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.openrunner.com/"
target="_blank">openrunner.com</a>'s doc says to use
Cloudmade router but soft only provides Google's on OSM.<br>
(You'd do something nice reporting this bug).<br>
I only found the following in close relation with this.<br>
In two parts (yes, sometimes the gnus have to fly too ;-))<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.openrunner.com/"
target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2010-November/055088.html</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2010-December/055121.html"
target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2010-December/055121.html</a><br>
<br>
Cheers, <br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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