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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2013-09-17 05:29, Marc Gemis wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJKJX-Q59bUv2p4_F_1tFitoOPkVK_MVtDXOu_CxYzRZVaXfeQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">André,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>in digest mode, your mails are replaced by a link to the
html content. In non-digest mode your mails appear fine.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The result is that I never read your mails on the tagging
mailing list that I follow i digest mode. It's just "too much
work" to open an additional page to see whether it's
interesting enough to read.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Hi Marc,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your report, but that's strange.<br>
I always send my e-mails to the list in both text and html formats
(alternative in the same e-mail), so that everybody should be
pleased. But they're not!<br>
The text mode is (almost) perfectly readable <a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/2013-September/004552.html">on
the archive server</a>, also containing a link to the html version
that they call an attachment (they seem not to understand the word
"alternative").<br>
Of course, the tables that we sometimes need to send are pure
garbage in text mode.<br>
<br>
I explained how I'm using a Gmail account as a perfect mailing list
archiver.<br>
I also use the filters of Gmail as a perfect e-mail redistributor,
like a manually maintained mailing list, the only problem is that
the number of recipients is limited.<br>
<br>
Definitely, that mailman is the most antediluvian and frustrating
software there is. A conspirator.<br>
<br>
Please file a bug and ask them to work as well as Gmail and to
implement simple HTML filtering.<br>
<br>
followed below ...<br>
<br>
(1) archive server
lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/2013-September/004552.html
for those who prefer not to click<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2013-09-17 13:23, ael wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:20130917112338.GA4025@elf.conquest"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 01:02:23AM +0200, André Pirard wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 2013-09-16 11:52, Glenn Plas wrote :
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">If you want to be serious about this then a new topic should be
initiated by sending a new mail instead of a reply with a new
subject. Every decent mailclient out there -usually- does not use the
subject to 'thread' mails. instead it uses certain fields in the mail
headers. I noticed that mail-man (the mailing list handler of THIS
list) does not seem to add those headers (in fact, they seem to be
removed from outgoing mails, I cannot find those fields like below).
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">You're right, [but] my main gripe is against the mailing list software mailman
itself because it does not allow HTML.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Please, please no. HTML should only be in an attachment if and only if
it cannot be avoided. Apart from bloat, it is a security risk. Email !=
HTML.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Attachment?????
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1107514545383645585=="
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============1107514545383645585==
Content-Type: <b>multipart/alternative</b>;
boundary="------------060707090800060503050609"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060707090800060503050609
Content-Type: <b>text/plain</b>; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
</pre>
....<br>
<pre>--------------060707090800060503050609
Content-Type: <b>text/html</b>; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
</pre>
............<br>
<pre>--------------060707090800060503050609--
</pre>
</blockquote>
Can't you see that word <b>alternative</b><b></b>? <b>You can
choose</b><b></b>!!!<br>
If you prefer to use text, please do, but do not prevent those who
understood HTML to use it!!!<br>
<br>
Security: correction: the security risk is Windows and similar
software.<br>
Read it: what I advocate is "simple html" for which there is
absolutely no security risk.<br>
Those who launch a full browser, and especially an unsafe one
running Javascript and, worse, Activethings, to display <b>any html</b>
e-mail take as much risk as when displaying a Web page.<br>
Using simple html or filtering e-mail to obtain simple html as I
suggested or interpreting only the simple part of html is perfectly
safe, especially on a virus resistant system like Linux or OS X.<br>
Some may remember the RTF (rich text format) specification that
people that you may want to call crazy have used in e-mail before
html existed to allow what I advocate, for example writing a letter
in e-mail. No one ever spoke of risk before RTF was abandoned and
HTML deviated.<br>
The mad thing is this (just an example):<br>
<br>
<tt>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff></tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Monsieur ...
</FONT></DIV></tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><DIV><FONT face=3DArial
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Je
vous rappelle ...</FONT></DIV></tt><br>
<br>
a s o for more than 50 lines,<br>
switching to the same font font for every paragraph, even empty
ones.<br>
And Apple Mail is even worse.<br>
<br>
They ignore the philosophy of simple HTML that is to use no font,
just a size number, no line width, the user adjusts to his
convenience, etc...<br>
Now here's Thunderbird doing more complicated:<br>
<pre> <ul>
<li>.../li>
<li>...</li>
</ul>
<p>...</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
And here's an OSM simple HTML page speaking:
<span> </span><span><<span class="start-tag">ul</span>></span><span>
</span><span><<span class="start-tag">li</span>></span><span></span><span><<span class="start-tag">a</span> <span class="attribute-name">href</span>="<a href="view-source:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bicycle?uselang=fr" class="attribute-value">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bicycle?uselang=fr</a>"<span class="attribute-name"></span>></span><span>bicycle</span><span></<span class="end-tag">a</span>></span><span> = yes</span><span></<span class="end-tag">li</span>>
</span><span> </span><span><<span class="start-tag">li</span>></span><span></span><span><<span class="start-tag">a</span> <span class="attribute-name">href</span>="<a href="view-source:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:foot?uselang=fr" class="attribute-value">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:foot?uselang=fr</a>"></span><span>foot</span><span></<span class="end-tag">a</span>></span><span> = designated</span><span></<span class="end-tag">li</span>></span><span>
... </span><span>
</span><span> </<span class="end-tag">ul</span>></span><span></span>
</pre>
that you can perfectly copy&paste like this (only for those who
prefer):<br>
<div class="browse-section">
<h4>Balises :</h4>
<ul>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bicycle?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>bicycle</code> sur le wiki">bicycle</a> =
yes</li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:foot?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>foot</code> sur le wiki">foot</a> =
designated</li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:highway?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>highway</code> sur le wiki">highway</a> =
<a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=path?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>highway=path</code> sur le wiki">path</a></li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:horse?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>horse</code> sur le wiki">horse</a> = yes</li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:incline?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>incline</code> sur le wiki">incline</a> =
down</li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:name?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>name</code> sur le wiki">name</a> = Chemin
des Boûfs</li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:sac%20scale?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>sac_scale</code> sur le wiki">sac_scale</a>
= hiking</li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>source</code> sur le wiki">source</a> =
Bing</li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:surface?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>surface</code> sur le wiki">surface</a> =
ground</li>
<li><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:width?uselang=fr"
title="La description de la balise
<code>width</code> sur le wiki">width</a> = 2</li>
</ul>
</div>
<pre>Do you really think there's a security risk when decoding such kind of things?
</pre>
If people were transferring simple HTML Web pages to e-mail and
archiving them in IMAP servers instead of printing them, we would
have made a big step towards saving paper, the forest and the planet
of our children.<br>
Same with most usages of PDF.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
André.<br>
<br>
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