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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">+1<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bigfatfrog67.me">http://bigfatfrog67.me</a>
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On 28/11/2013 15:32, nounours wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:BC5042A4-E63E-47E6-B64C-275182DEED99@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Dear André,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also being new to OSM and new to the tagging mailing list, I
completely understand your frustration. And I also believe that
a lot of people left OSM because even if they try hard, the
don't get it right.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On the other hand, I also understand the people being
involved for a long time in OSM, to explain over and over again
the same things ...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But I think, in all documentations on the wiki, there is a
lot of "clean-up" needed, to make clear to newcomers what's
valid and what's not. And also I think contributors would
benefit from a badge indicating the state, like "I'm new and
willing to learn. If I do something wrong, it's not on purpose",
in opposition to a badge "I'm an old OSM guy and grounchy, and
if I do something, I do it on purpuse to make life harder for
others".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In a conlcusion, I only can ask you to stay and help to
transform OSM in the way your suggesting. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Concerning opening_hours: I'm very much happy that finally
someone (André) tries to simply this tag. I personally think the
original definition is a nightmare, and even Andrés "simplified"
syntax looks very, very complicated to a normal mapper.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Well, I really hope the person that added the "don't use
it"-flag will remove it and help to improve André diagramm!</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Thanks, nounours</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(badge: greenhorn, but willing to learn)</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Am 28.11.2013 um 16:15 schrieb André Pirard:</div>
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<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi,<br>
<br>
I had to tag the simplest thing there is: a parking lot
closed a few hours on Fridays (during market time).<br>
On <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Opening_hours">wiki.osm.org/wiki/Opening_hours</a>,
I found explanations by, rather than a simple diagram, a lot
of examples and explanations sometimes nearing slang like
"off" rather than the internationally understood "closed".<br>
After spending much time reading them several times, I
didn't find how to code that ubiquitous case.<br>
I queried this list and I received something like six
different and alternating answers.<br>
Someone even said that "off", crowding the page, is not to
be used.<br>
So, I thought that this fuzzy matter had to be be solved by
writing a simple syntax diagram. Should anything be wrong in
it, someone would put it right and it would be a good job
jobbed and a big step forward.<br>
Instead of that, someone added to footnote 1 the very clear
sentence "no program works like that", looking like a
discussion message. I posted here that it would be better
to state (and fix) how the diagram must be rather than how
it must not (I also receive repeated updates notices from
the discussion page in which someone put a vote).<br>
<br>
And now, probably in thanks for my contribution, my diagram
was adorned with this:<br>
<h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Simplified_syntax_diagram"></span></h2>
<table class="metadata plainlinks ambox" style="margin:0
10%;border:1px solid
#AAAAAA;background:#FFDDDD;border-left:10px #B22222
solid;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="mbox-image" style="border:none;padding:2px
0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center;">
<div style="width:52px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/File:Ambox_warning_pn.svg"
class="image" title="Warning"><span><40px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png></span></a></div>
</td>
<td class="mbox-text"
style="width:100%;border:none;padding:0.25em
0.9em;text-align:center;">The syntax diagram below
had no proper discussion and vote, and conflicts
with established tagging. <b>Don't use it!</b></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p>It is obviously something very difficult to understand
that a diagram translating an article needs no discussion
nor vote but needs to be corrected to align with the
obscure explanations by their gurus. Else, it's the
article itself that suffers from lack of discussion and
vote. That remark still doesn't say what's wrong in the
diagram.<br>
</p>
In practical conclusion, two months after stating the
problem I still don't see how to do. I know that the
diagram is wrong but not what in it and there is still no
example in the page explaining how to tag that ubiquitous
case.<br>
<br>
So, I followed my best option: remove my tagging,
unsubscribe and forget it all about opening-hours.<br>
That's probably what a many mappers have done silently,
unless it's true that they tag in every which way.<br>
<br>
Help OSM, they say.<br>
All the best for the rest<br>
<br>
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<td>André.</td>
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<br>
<br>
</div>
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