<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-02-02 08:56, Colin Smale wrote
:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:2cd7c3371db0fc150d764088923277f9@xs4all.nl"
type="cite">
<p><span style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">On 2014-02-02 02:15,
André Pirard wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-02-01 17:39, Colin Smale
wrote :</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px">
<p><span style="font-size: 12px;">On 2014-02-01 17:30, Masi
Master wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; border-left: #1010ff 2px
solid; margin-left: 5px;">
<pre>Normally traffic signs belongs to the road to the next intersection/crossing.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>That depends on the country - different jurisdictions have
different conventions. In the UK the sign's effect is often
"until further notice", i.e. until there is another sign
telling you differently. It doesn't automatically get
nullified at the first side road like it does in many
countries.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><span style="font-size: 12px;"></span>Strange to me again
because the reason why the signs <strong>have to</strong> be
repeated is that drivers entering the road at that "next
crossing" wouldn't know them otherwise. How do the UK drivers
know?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>They have to use their memory. ...<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
Mm. It looks like a drawing is needed...<br>
<br>
<img alt="x"
src="http://www.permisdeconduire-online.be/snelheidwet/afbeeldingen/snelheidwet36.GIF"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="679" height="301"><br>
<br>
<br>
Supposing that, unlike on the drawing, the right sign was a 80 km/h
limit, repeating the left one as we say.<br>
What "memory" could a driver coming from the bottom road and turning
right use to know that he is entering a 80 km/h speed limit if the
right sign wasn't there?<br>
Because of this, signals <b>must always</b> be repeated after each
intersections. The only exception is zone signs which, by
definition, cover a whole area and that must be placed at all
entries/exits of that area.<br>
That is the meaning of the drawing, actually. The 80 km/h limit is
canceled at the intersection but the 50 km/h one induced by the
urban zone sign remains.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>... The legal basis is also often different. There is often (it
depends on the sign/restriction) a "Traffic Order" which says
something like "the road from A to B is now 30mph maximum speed"
and prima facie you are committing an offence if you disobey the
order whether there are signs or not. However you can defend
yourself in court by saying the signs were absent, hidden,
confusing etc. So the highway authority has to be reasonable
about putting up signs, and it is your problem if you miss one.
In NL at least the offence is created by the sign itself, so no
sign = no offence.</p>
</blockquote>
It's my deepest opinion that it's not my fault ("my problem") if I
miss a zone sign because it's at the other side of a lorry I'm
overtaking and that the Road Administration are to blame for not
putting such important signs on both sides. There are even
self-adhesive tapes to be wrapped around poles to remind a zone and
they are not used.<br>
<br>
OKing for off-topic, that Administration are often out of their
mind.<br>
I know many places where the parking restriction alongside a road is
made of a series of signs with an up pointing arrow. That arrow
means "beginning of the restriction". Consequently, wherever he is,
a driver sees the beginning of the restriction ahead of him and the
signs mean that parking is allowed everywhere except in front of the
last sign with a down arrow. They didn't grasp the meaning of the
double pointed arrow.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>By the way, diving off-topic for a second, their memory is not
tested as much as drivers on Dutch motorways. You may have to
have a stack of up to 5 speed limits at any one time. Imagine
encountering the following signs, in order:</p>
<p>1) start of motorway - class of road says it is 130</p>
<p>2) static sign says it is 120</p>
<p>3) static sign also says it is 100 between 0700 and 1900</p>
<p>4) temporary static sign says it is 90 (e.g. for roadworks)</p>
<p>5) overhead displays say temporary speed limit is 70 (e.g. for
congestion ahead)</p>
<p>6) in the course of the traffic jam you see a temporary static
sign at the end of the road works which says "end of 90 limit"
(black circle, diagonal bar, grey 90 visible)</p>
<p>7) overhead displays say "end of restriction" (circle with
diagonal bar)</p>
<p>What is the speed limit after sign 6 (the time is 1859)? And
after sign 7? And why is everybody suddenly overtaking you?</p>
<p>There is a catch at point 7) - end of restriction on overhead
displays now only cancel limits from overhead displays. So is
the limit after sign 6) 100, or 130?</p>
</blockquote>
I would call that bait signaling.<br>
The signs I'm used to see are far more gentle (and the puzzles are
in my smartphone).<br>
It's exactly the point of the above drawing that, although it's not
necessary, the right sign very kindly reminds (herhaling) that the
50 km/h zone limit applies again.<br>
<br>
Remember that OSM traffic <br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>