<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Tom, I think you are interpreting the tag amenity=place_of_worship too literally. In my opinion, this is not intended to only apply to the specific place or building where the actual worshiping happens.<br>
<br>For one thing, we tag footways as highway=footway but footways are not highways. And we tag city halls as amenity=townhall even though cities are not towns (at least in many countries). It would be best to think of tags as simply identifiers for a type/class of map features. Yes, the English meaning of the keys and values of tags usually match the feature, but they don't always have to match.<br>
<br></div>For another thing, we tag Scientology churches as amenity=place_of_worship in OSM but scientologists do not really perform any practice that we would call "worship" or "devotion". So, going by your logic, tagging their churches as amenity=place_of_worship is wrong. (The debate on whether Scientology should be considered a religion or not is moot; religion=scientologist is an established tag in OSM.)<br>
<br></div>Lastly, you mentioned about parking amenities and you think that these should not be included in the area tagged as amenity=place_of_worship, but that they could be included in a larger area tagged as landuse=religious. But again, going by your logic, we should exclude all parking amenities and other non-educational features from areas tagged as amenity=school/college/university. But that is not the current practice.<br>
<div><div><div><div><br></div><div>To conclude, including the temple/mosque/church grounds—even if there is no worshiping going on the grounds—in the area tagged as amenity=place_of_worship is perfectly valid.<br></div></div>
</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Tom Pfeifer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:t.pfeifer@computer.org" target="_blank">t.pfeifer@computer.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Eugene, I am not ignoring anything, I am arguing and listening.<br>
My "90%" were labelled as a guess in a discussion ("quite certainly"),<br>
the "1/3 of them have building tags" comes from taginfo.<br>
<br>
You give examples from 6 places where particular mappers use this<br>
style, this is also not a statistic. I have seen this style as well,<br>
and it only reinforces the need to find a solution that suits the<br>
different situations.<br>
<br>
If you have knowledge how the act of worshipping in a Buddhist temple<br>
differs from a Christian church or Jewish synagogue, in particular in<br>
being focussed on a particular building vs. practised in a more spatial<br>
manner on the religious campus, that contribution would be welcome.<br>
<br>
So far we have identified the following use cases / situations:<br>
<br>
1<br>
Building where worshipping ceremonies focus, surrounded by land which has a relation<br>
to the religion, and holds structures that are not used for the act of worshipping.<br>
The building often has architectural significance and stands out as a landmark.<br>
<br>
2<br>
Places of worshipping that are not focused on a particular building, the<br>
ceremony is performed in a spacial manner, potentially in open space.<br>
<br>
3<br>
Land which has a relation to the religion, holding e.g. administrative office<br>
buildings, seminar rooms, etc., but no particular building for worshipping<br>
ceremonies.<br>
<br>
4<br>
Buildings that were erected for worshipping, thus still have the<br>
architectural significance and landmark character, but are now used for<br>
secular purposes, such as concert theatres or climbing halls. Some could be<br>
reactivated for the religious purpose by bringing the altar back.<br>
<br>
I still find a landuse tag very suitable for case 1 and 3, where calling<br>
the land *=place_of_worship would be a misnomer for the lack of ceremony.<div class=""><br>
<br>
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 11:25 PM, Tom Pfeifer wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Thus the comparison with [amenity=school], that can be easily expanded to the<br>
whole campus, fails for [amenity=place_of_worship].<br>
<br>
To conclude, [amenity=place_of_worship] should not be expanded to the<br>
full campus, and [landuse=religious] is a suitable, multicultural<br>
tag for this land, comparable to [landuse=retail] or [landuse=commercial]<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
Thus "amenity=place_of_worship" is perfectly tailored to this particular<br>
building and its meaning should not be expanded to something it was not<br>
defined for initially. Keep in mind it is already used 611000 times, only<br>
1/3 of them has a building tag, but quite certainly 90% of them are buildings.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Eugene Alvin Villar wrote, on 2014-08-26 23:34:<div class="im HOEnZb"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
This completely ignores the current practice all over the world (especially in Asia) where the landuse is already tagged with amenity=place_of_worship. Some examples:<br>
<br>
Buddhist temples in Tokyo, Japan: <a href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gi" target="_blank">http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gi</a><br>
Catholic churches in Manila, Philippines: <a href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gj" target="_blank">http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gj</a><br>
Buddhist, Hindu, Methodist, and Muslim places of worship in Singapore: <a href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gk" target="_blank">http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gk</a><br>
Buddhist temples in Beijing, China: <a href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gl" target="_blank">http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gl</a><br>
Hindu temples and Christian churches in Bangalore, India: <a href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gm" target="_blank">http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gm</a><br>
Buddhist temples in Bangkok, Thailand: <a href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gn" target="_blank">http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4gn</a><br>
<br>
I would like to see how you came up with the "90% of them are buildings" statistic.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
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