<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I was tagging tracks in the desert, and ran across some similar issues. Some of the tracks are abandoned because they were no longer needed/ wanted (officially) in a wilderness park, or heavily damaged or unmantainable because of the road's position in a ravine. But people who want to use the old road with very high off-road skill, can drive them without flipping or destroying their off-road 4x4. 1m gullies and boulders make up sections of the road, requiring a bit of rock crawling to get through. </div><div><br></div><div>This is not in a sports context, but necessity - access down a 1 km long ravine from a plateau in the badlands is the only way to continue north into the next (easily accessed) valley, without having to drive around the mountains for 3 hours. But you could get your truck stuck/ flipped/ totaled because the condition of the road is so unbelievably bad. It is beyond having 4x4 - it is having the skill and risk acceptance required to go drive the road correctly. <br><br>And yes, it is marked on USGS maps as a track. <br><br>Javbw</div><div><br>On Oct 27, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <<a href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-10-27 15:22 GMT+01:00 Ronnie Soak <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chaoschaos0909@googlemail.com" target="_blank">chaoschaos0909@googlemail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>It may be usable on foot if dried out over a long time or if frozen.</div></div></blockquote><div><br><br></div><div>yes, this is a general problem with unpaved ways that usability might (depending on the actual composition and grain size) heavily depend on the weather conditions, especially humidity and temperature.<br><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>tracktype does not offer a solution for this, as worse grades are described as being closer to undisturbed nature, while the opposite is the case here.</div></blockquote><div><br><br></div><div>actually tracktype is not about "undisturbed nature", it is about how much the way is built up and how much not, in combination with actual smoothness / usability (i.e. it is somehow subjective). In your case it would probably be a tracktype=grade5 because otherwise the way would not have been damaged that much ;-)<br><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>sac_scale comes to mind, but this is a track not a path and it has nothing to do with alpine hiking.</div></blockquote><div><br><br></div><div>+1, wouldn't use it<br><br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>track_visibility does also not cover this, as these tracks are if anything MORE visible now.</div></blockquote><div><br><br>+1<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>Even surface or smoothness can't describe this, as simply tagging this bumpy and muddy does not do the situation justice. (And they are not picked up by enough renders/routers, for which we of course do not tag.)</div></blockquote></div><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">IMHO surface can still be useful to describe the surface and smoothness to describe the lack of smoothness.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">I'd go for surface=earth and tracktype=grade5 and maybe a smoothness indication (not sure what are currently suggested values, maybe very_horrible ;-) ). When the surface material is soft the unevenness might fix itself with the rain in the next months anyway.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">What do you mean by "unusable by foot"? Is this about getting your shoes and trousers dirty or would you have to climb "artificial cliffs"?<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">cheers,<br>Martin<br></div></div>
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