<div dir="ltr">IMHO cycleway=* should stay. <span lang="EN-US">cycleway:lanes= would be (is?) significantly more complex and it may be used in addition, not instead of cycleway=*.<br></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-11-03 18:47 GMT+01:00 Hubert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sg.forum@gmx.de" target="_blank">sg.forum@gmx.de</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="DE"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Indeed, Point 2 is also a very widely given situation in Germany. Also in cases where there are dedicated left turn cycle lanes. (Between the left turn lane and the through lane for cars.). But the question is, whether we should abandon cycleway=* tagging on the main road in favor for, let us say, cycleway:lanes=, or do we allow lane tagging in addition to the well established cycleway=* scheme.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">To get back to the original discussion, how would you like to see the “soft_lane” being incorporated into either of the two tagging schemes?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I look forward to your thoughts,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hubert<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> Mateusz Konieczny [mailto:<a href="mailto:matkoniecz@gmail.com" target="_blank">matkoniecz@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Samstag, 1. November 2014 22:34<br><b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] sub key for cycle ways<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"2. the cases where the bike lane is in the middle of the road is limited" - bicycle lane in <br>the middle is standard before advanced stop line (to be on the left side of right-turn) - </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">at least in Poland</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>"3. “cycleway=track” would look funny using that scheme" - cycleway=track is anyway</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">not compatible with detailed tagging</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">2014-11-01 14:18 GMT+01:00 Hubert <<a href="mailto:sg.forum@gmx.de" target="_blank">sg.forum@gmx.de</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p><div><p><span lang="EN-US">Sure, but I think it is best to do that in addition and not instead of “cycleway=*“ tagging. For one it takes more effort, 2. the cases where the bike lane is in the middle of the road is limited. (not counting parking lanes). 3. “cycleway=track” would look funny using that scheme. Also adding more data about the lane is imo easier with a namespace based tagging scheme of “cycleway:*=*.</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p><span lang="EN-US">On Sa, Nov 1, 2014 at 3:30 AM, Paul Johnson <</span><a href="mailto:baloo@ursamundi.org" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">baloo@ursamundi.org</span></a><span lang="EN-US">> wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span lang="EN-US">Can we move towards using the lanes tagging used for every other mode already?  It's much more precise and can deal with situations like where the bike lane is not the extreme left/right lane.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span lang="EN-US">On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Hubert <</span><a href="mailto:sg.forum@gmx.de" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">sg.forum@gmx.de</span></a><span lang="EN-US">> wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Hallo,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">since a new main value for</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">UK:advisary cyclelane, DE:Schutzstreifen, A:Mehrzweckstreifen, NL:fietsstrook met onderbroken streep, F:bande cyclable conseillée et réservée, CZ:cyklistický jízdní pruh didn’t get approved,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">I’m thinking of</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">introducing a</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">sub key for that. (Like many of you</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">already</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">suggested.)</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">As a start</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">I’m thinking of</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“cycleway=lane + lane=soft_lane” for that purpose.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">However just a key for that one occasion</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">doesn’t seem logical, so a set of keys defining different types of</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“on lane”/”on road surface” cycle</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">infrastructure should be developed, to keep</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">the tagging consistent</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">or</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">to</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">create a structured</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">concept.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">In order to do that,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">I’m thinking of introducing</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“lane=strict_lane,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">soft_lane,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">suggestive_lane” for lane like cycle ways where bicycles are</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">‘encouraged’</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">to stay on one side of the road</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">and</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“shared_lane=sharrows,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">pictogram,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">busway” for roads/lanes where bicyclists are not</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">separated from other traffic.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">The in my opinion the main problems in that</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">idea</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">are</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">the use of</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“lane=suggestive_lane” and</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“shared_lane=</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">busway.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“lane=suggestive_lane”</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">because it is in contrast of</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">the</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">current tagging as</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“cycleway=shared_lane” in the</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Netherlands. At least as far as</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">I can</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">remember. I’m</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">also</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">not sure</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">whether</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“smurf</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">lanes”</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">in the UK are tagged as</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“cycleway=shared_lane”.</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“shared_lane=</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">busway” since this is currently tagged as</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“cycleway=share_</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">busway”. I think that in favor of structure,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“shared_lane=</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">busway”</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">should be</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">allowed. However,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">I haven’t made up my mind</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">about that</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">yet, or whether</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“cycleway=share_</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">busway” should be</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">deprecated or just be discouraged.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">This would leave</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“cycleway=track,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">lane,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">shared_lane, opposite_track, opposite_lane,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">opposite” as the main values,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“lane=strict_lane,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">soft_lane,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">suggestive_lane” and</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“shared_lane=sharrows,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">pictogram,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">busway”.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Not part of the sub key</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">discussion:</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">As an</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">addition</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">one could say that a</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“cycleway=track” is also a lane like cycle infrastructure,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">which would make it a</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“lane=track” sub key.</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Also any</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“cycleway=opposite(_*)” could be represented by, for example,</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">“highway=* +</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">oneway=yes +</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">oneway:bicycle=no +</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">cycleway=right/left/both</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">cycleway:right/left</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">=lane +</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">cycleway:right/left:oneway=</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">yes/-1”</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">(assuming right hand traffic)</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">What are your</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">thoughts on this tagging scheme?</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">I’m sorry, if this</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">is</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">a bit confusing.</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">It’s late but I just couldn’t wait writing.</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Best regard</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888" lang="EN-US">Hubert</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span lang="EN-US"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tagging mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</span></a><span lang="EN-US"><br></span><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</span></a><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tagging mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>