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When I see 'facultatif' in French, I normally translate this as
'optional' in English. You will find 'facultative' in the Oxford
English Dictionary, but it will be a meaningless word to most
English people.<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
On 14/12/2014 10:35, Ulrich Lamm wrote:<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:79A8F78E-08EB-4064-9CBC-551F57A68E77@t-online.de"
type="cite"><br>
<div>
<div>Am 13.12.2014 um 10:56 schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org">tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a>:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; font-size: medium; ">Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:14:29 +0000<br>
From: SomeoneElse <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lists@atownsend.org.uk">lists@atownsend.org.uk</a>><br>
To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Survey of street/road layouts and
their tagging<br>
Message-ID: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:548B1465.60509@atownsend.org.uk">548B1465.60509@atownsend.org.uk</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 12/12/2014 13:13, Ulrich Lamm wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">See<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ulamm/Tables_of_street_layouts">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ulamm/Tables_of_street_layouts</a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
This could benefit from an explanation of what problem
you're trying to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
solve here. The wiki's full of "I think we should tag X
like Y" pages<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
but without any arguments for a change to motivate mappers
to change<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
their habits it's not going to happen.<br>
<br>
Currently, for example, "obligatory" is used only 40 times,
and 10 of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
those are "nudism":<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=obligatory#values">http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=obligatory#values</a><br>
<br>
Also the mainly biological term "facultative" is used as if
it's an<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
accepted tag, but there are only 49 uses, in the centre of
Bremen:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/cycleway=facultative">http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/cycleway=facultative</a><br>
<br>
(and it's not common English by any stretch of the
imagination - maybe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
versions of it are more used in Romance languages where the
latin root<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
is more obvious)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Andy<br>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>All tags I've written in purple are innovative. I. e., they
are an outcome of logical delibaration, not a record of
frequent practice.</div>
<div>Even myself I didn't use them before suggesting them.</div>
<div>But only watching practice, we'll never get a set of
uneqivocal tools.</div>
<div>As I've written in the "notes", I have preferred the term
"obligatory", as it is common in many languages, and it is
part of the official description of the round blue French
traffic sign "piste ou bande cyclable obligatoire" =
"obligatory cycletrack or cycle lane". </div>
<div>The counterpart (rectangular blue French sign) is "piste
ou bande cyclable conseillée et réservée"
= "advisory-and-reserved cycletrack or cycle lane". There, I
suggest "facultative" or simply "free" for cycletracks and
"soft_lane" fpr cycle lanes. That kind of cycletracks (in
Germany "Radweg ohne Benutzungspflicht", cycletrack-design
without signpost) may be used only by cyclists, but needn't be
used by them. The British traffic law has a similar status for
its <u>strict</u> cycle lanes, called "mandatory", which
puzzles readers of other native languages, as according to
dicitionaries "mandatory" is almost synonyme with
"obligatory".</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think it doesn't matter if the term "obligatory" or the
term "facultative" is also used for other than road traffic
features, unless the other usage would be in contradiction to
the road traffic use.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Ulrich</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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