<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>Am 13.12.2014 um 10:56 schrieb <a href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org">tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">Message: 4<br>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:14:29 +0000<br>From: SomeoneElse <<a href="mailto:lists@atownsend.org.uk">lists@atownsend.org.uk</a>><br>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [Tagging] Survey of street/road layouts and their tagging<br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:548B1465.60509@atownsend.org.uk">548B1465.60509@atownsend.org.uk</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br><br>On 12/12/2014 13:13, Ulrich Lamm wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">See<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ulamm/Tables_of_street_layouts">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ulamm/Tables_of_street_layouts</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>This could benefit from an explanation of what problem you're trying to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>solve here. The wiki's full of "I think we should tag X like Y" pages<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>but without any arguments for a change to motivate mappers to change<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>their habits it's not going to happen.<br><br>Currently, for example, "obligatory" is used only 40 times, and 10 of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>those are "nudism":<br><br><a href="http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=obligatory#values">http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=obligatory#values</a><br><br>Also the mainly biological term "facultative" is used as if it's an<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>accepted tag, but there are only 49 uses, in the centre of Bremen:<br><br><a href="http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/cycleway=facultative">http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/cycleway=facultative</a><br><br>(and it's not common English by any stretch of the imagination - maybe<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>versions of it are more used in Romance languages where the latin root<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>is more obvious)<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Andy<br></span></blockquote></div><br><div><div>All tags I've written in purple are innovative. I. e., they are an outcome of logical delibaration, not a record of frequent practice.</div><div>Even myself I didn't use them before suggesting them.</div><div>But only watching practice, we'll never get a set of uneqivocal tools.</div><div>As I've written in the "notes", I have preferred the term "obligatory", as it is common in many languages, and it is part of the official description of the round blue French traffic sign "piste ou bande cyclable obligatoire" = "obligatory cycletrack or cycle lane". </div><div>The counterpart (rectangular blue French sign) is "piste ou bande cyclable conseillée et réservée" = "advisory-and-reserved cycletrack or cycle lane". There, I suggest "facultative" or simply "free" for cycletracks and "soft_lane" fpr cycle lanes. That kind of cycletracks (in Germany "Radweg ohne Benutzungspflicht", cycletrack-design without signpost) may be used only by cyclists, but needn't be used by them. The British traffic law has a similar status for its <u>strict</u> cycle lanes, called "mandatory", which puzzles readers of other native languages, as according to dicitionaries "mandatory" is almost synonyme with "obligatory".</div></div><div><br></div><div>I think it doesn't matter if the term "obligatory" or the term "facultative" is also used for other than road traffic features, unless the other usage would be in contradiction to the road traffic use.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div>Ulrich</div></body></html>