<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I'd also agree to "optional".<div><br></div><div>How do you consider my alternative term "free". It is short and positive, but some people may read it as a synonyme of "gratis".</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div>Ulrich</div><div><br><div><div>Am 14.12.2014 um 11:52 schrieb <a href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org">tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">When I see 'facultatif' in French, I normally translate this as<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>'optional' in English. You will find 'facultative' in the Oxford English<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Dictionary, but it will be a meaningless word to most English people.<br><br>Steve<br><br>On 14/12/2014 10:35, Ulrich Lamm wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Am 13.12.2014 um 10:56 schrieb<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org">tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org">mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a>>:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Message: 4<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:14:29 +0000<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: SomeoneElse <<a href="mailto:lists@atownsend.org.uk">lists@atownsend.org.uk</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:lists@atownsend.org.uk">mailto:lists@atownsend.org.uk</a>>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To:tagging@openstreetmap.org <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [Tagging] Survey of street/road layouts and their tagging<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:548B1465.60509@atownsend.org.uk">548B1465.60509@atownsend.org.uk</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:548B1465.60509@atownsend.org.uk">mailto:548B1465.60509@atownsend.org.uk</a>>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 12/12/2014 13:13, Ulrich Lamm wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="seehttps://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ulamm/Tables_of_street_layouts">Seehttps://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ulamm/Tables_of_street_layouts</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This could benefit from an explanation of what problem you're trying to<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">solve here. The wiki's full of "I think we should tag X like Y" pages<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">but without any arguments for a change to motivate mappers to change<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">their habits it's not going to happen.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Currently, for example, "obligatory" is used only 40 times, and 10 of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">those are "nudism":<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=obligatory#values">http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=obligatory#values</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Also the mainly biological term "facultative" is used as if it's an<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">accepted tag, but there are only 49 uses, in the centre of Bremen:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/cycleway=facultative">http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/cycleway=facultative</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(and it's not common English by any stretch of the imagination - maybe<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">versions of it are more used in Romance languages where the latin root<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is more obvious)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cheers,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Andy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">All tags I've written in purple are innovative. I. e., they are an<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">outcome of logical delibaration, not a record of frequent practice.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Even myself I didn't use them before suggesting them.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">But only watching practice, we'll never get a set of uneqivocal tools.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">As I've written in the "notes", I have preferred the term<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"obligatory", as it is common in many languages, and it is part of the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">official description of the round blue French traffic sign "piste ou<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">bande cyclable obligatoire" = "obligatory cycletrack or cycle lane".<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The counterpart (rectangular blue French sign) is "piste ou bande<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">cyclable conseillée et réservée" = "advisory-and-reserved cycletrack<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">or cycle lane". There, I suggest "facultative" or simply "free" for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">cycletracks and "soft_lane" fpr cycle lanes. That kind of cycletracks<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(in Germany "Radweg ohne Benutzungspflicht", cycletrack-design without<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">signpost) may be used only by cyclists, but needn't be used by them.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The British traffic law has a similar status for its _strict_ cycle<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">lanes, called "mandatory", which puzzles readers of other native<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">languages, as according to dicitionaries "mandatory" is almost<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">synonyme with "obligatory".<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I think it doesn't matter if the term "obligatory" or the term<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"facultative" is also used for other than road traffic features,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">unless the other usage would be in contradiction to the road traffic use.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Cheers<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Ulrich<br></blockquote></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>