<div dir="ltr">Getting all places with japanese and chinese cuisine around the globe in Overpass: <a href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/7b2" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" link="external">http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/7b2</a></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-21 8:09 GMT-02:00 Никита [via GIS] <span dir="ltr"><<a href="/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5830795&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]</a>></span>:<br><blockquote style='border-left:2px solid #CCCCCC;padding:0 1em' class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><span class="">> <span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">traffic_calming = table; choker in Russia?</span></span><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">This is not specific to Russia actually. Not many software will support tagging:</span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">traffic_calming:table=yes</span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">traffic_calming:chocker=yes</span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Is there problem to tag this in database and covert to "</span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">traffic_calming = table; choker" to get support in legacy software or outdated tools?</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">We use this pattern for almost anything in OSM that has multiple keys or values (different meanings actually "table"s "chocker"s):</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:disused" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:disused</a></span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:abandoned" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:abandoned</a></span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source</a></span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Please see links above, they are in English. Also, fuel: key page was created at 2010.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">I think we should start using both tagging schemes right now:</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">cuisine=simplevalueforoldsoftware</span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><i>And actual tags for new software and presets</i></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">cuisine:japanse=yes</span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">cuisine:chinese=yes</span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">This is absolutely not new. See </span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">disused, </span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">abandoned.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Over time we will deprecate simple tags </span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">cuisine=X and possibly shop=X.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div></div><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-21 12:37 GMT+03:00 Marc Gemis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5830778&i=0" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">[hidden email]</a>></span>:<br><blockquote style='border-left:2px solid #CCCCCC;padding:0 1em' style="border-left:2px solid #cccccc;padding:0 1em" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">How do you tag traffic_calming = table; choker in Russia ?<div><br></div><div>I'm willing to adapt my tagging, but how can I do this ? Both forms of traffic calming are used at the same place sometimes, a table that is smaller than the rest of the road.</div><div><br></div><div>Furthermore what about cuisine ? Do you use cuisine:japanse=yes, cuisine:chinese=yes ?</div><div><br></div><div>If you are using all those subkeys since 2010, why aren't they documented in the wiki ? I only joined the project in 2011, but have never seen this being documented for all those keys...</div><div><br></div><div>regards</div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>m.</div></font></span></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Никита <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5830778&i=1" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">[hidden email]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style='border-left:2px solid #CCCCCC;padding:0 1em' style="border-left:2px solid #cccccc;padding:0 1em" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">> </span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Java has regular expressions as well [1], I know they are not for the every day user, but this problem also holds for OR, AND. There are a lot of people that do not understand logical expressions.</span><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Furthermore, many word editors allow to search for word boundary (defined on spaces, and other punctuation), so you could search for "coin" without finding "bitcoin". If this is not possible in JOSM, maybe it has to be added.</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">My point is still the same. Java regexes are simpler, yes. They miss perl recursion and other perl specific stuff. God bless java language developers for doing this. But this is irrelevant to my points about wiki documentation or about need to teach <i>any regex</i> to josm user or id user.</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">We don't use multiple values for many things:</div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Key_Variations" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Key_Variations</a></span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway#Values" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway#Values</a></span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">... just open taginfo or do postgres query to see actual numbers.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">I have no idea why one would prefer semantickey=literal1;literal2;literal3 over <b>key:semanticsubtag=value</b>.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">For the latter: </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">- you make simple queries even with overpassQL or josm search</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">- you can make presets in iD or JOSM with translations in native language</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">- you can make wiki page about it</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">- you can send this link page to newbie</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">- you can be sure about meaning of this value</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Why is there need to guess liretal values instead of semantically tagging using ":" in key. Russian community was doing this since 2010. Do English wiki or users that behind us? Is there real reason to support ';"? I was really surprised when my changes were simply reverted.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Actually not that bad: <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:fuel&direction=next&oldid=400799" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:fuel&direction=next&oldid=400799</a> was here since 2010.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div>> <span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Now you're insulting the one person who was supporting you? Please</span><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">No I didn't. Quote them.</span></div></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">PS. Well I'm sorry for my tone if it was looking unacceptable in some messages.</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-21 12:00 GMT+03:00 Dan S <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5830778&i=2" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">[hidden email]</a>></span>:<br><blockquote style='border-left:2px solid #CCCCCC;padding:0 1em' style="border-left:2px solid #cccccc;padding:0 1em" class="gmail_quote">Now you're insulting the one person who was supporting you? Please<br>
STOP this thread everyone. Please.<br>
<div><div><br>
2015-01-21 8:55 GMT+00:00 Никита <<a href="http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5830778&i=3" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">[hidden email]</a>>:<br>
>> Just because one can use a regular expression to grep out a certain<br>
>> meaning doesn't mean it's a good thing to do and will always work<br>
> We easily revert these edits in Russia. Quite often user who want to show<br>
> their regex fu will fail so hard to guess actual properly of the real world.<br>
><br>
> We care about data we map.<br>
> We document it instead of guessing by taginfo.<br>
> We use real tags instead of regexes for users.<br>
><br>
> We like our newbies. We don't want to insist to use f$#$g perl regexes<br>
> simply to map things around them.<br>
><br>
> I cannot stop you from using regex. But if I find your changsets erroneous I<br>
> will revert them.<br>
><br>
>> In fact, nobody forces us to only use yes and no as a value.<br>
> Wrong. It not forces you anything. You can still tag currency:X=fixme.<br>
><br>
>> The Healthcare 2.0 proposal uses partial, main, yes and no. This can<br>
>> easily applied to a lot of values where it makes sense and it gives the<br>
>> flexibility to distinguish between equal and distinguished importance .<br>
> There way more tagging schemes than single Healthcare 2.0. Yes there<br>
> differences, so what?<br>
><br>
>> Using semicolon-lists for values was always considered a crutch until a<br>
>> better tagging-scheme comes along.<br>
> You forgot to say "among English speaking users who fail to use JOSM search<br>
> funtion or overpass or taginfo or wiki documentation". I don't care about<br>
> them.<br>
><br>
>> We all know that the only real solution would be a native data type for<br>
>> arrays in the database but as long as this isn't happening, we have to work<br>
>> around.<br>
> And obviously you choose the worst way to do this. With complicating things<br>
> with REGEX.<br>
><br>
><br>
> 2015-01-21 11:42 GMT+03:00 Nadjita <<a href="http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5830778&i=4" rel="nofollow" link="external" target="_blank">[hidden email]</a>>:<br>
>><br>
>> On 21.01.2015 09:06, Никита wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > If you trying to parse name=school *with any regex *to map it as<br>
>> > amenity=school* *you are wrong. OSM is not for you.<br>
>> > If you trying to parse currency=bitcoin;coin for coin, then stop it<br>
>> > right now. You have no idea how regexes or tags in osm work.<br>
>><br>
>> While I think, you should really calm down a bit and not sound so<br>
>> aggressive, I have to agree with you. The purpose of structuring data is<br>
>> not having to use a complicated, but a simple parser. Just because one<br>
>> can use a regular expression to grep out a certain meaning doesn't mean<br>
>> it's a good thing to do and will always work.<br>
>> The only downside of currency:X=yes, currency:Y=yes to currency=X;Y is<br>
>> that it involves more typing. In fact, nobody forces us to only use yes<br>
>> and no as a value. The Healthcare 2.0 proposal uses partial, main, yes<br>
>> and no. This can easily applied to a lot of values where it makes sense<br>
>> and it gives the flexibility to distinguish between equal and<br>
>> distinguished importance .<br>
>> Using semicolon-lists for values was always considered a crutch until a<br>
>> better tagging-scheme comes along.<br>
>> We all know that the only real solution would be a native data type for<br>
>> arrays in the database but as long as this isn't happening, we have to<br>
>> work around.<br>
>> But please let's not drag this down to a personal level and start<br>
>> insulting each other, this isn't going to accomplish anything but anger.<br>
>><br>
>> - Nadjita<br>
>><br>
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