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<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">Perhaps there should also be a
way to tag unofficial campsites where there is evidence someone has camped
in the past, but the action is now risky? For example, the site is
downhill from a slope where the ground is starting to split open, meaning
that there is a high risk of a landslide in the near future.</p>
<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">-- <br>
John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com<br>
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.<br>
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<p
style="color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; margin: 10pt 0;">On
February 24, 2015 4:46:52 AM Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0 0 0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left: 0.75ex;"><div
dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb
24, 2015 at 3:59 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com"
target="_blank">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div
class="gmail_extra"><span class=""><div class="gmail_quote">2015-02-24 5:23
GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:baloo@ursamundi.org"
target="_blank">baloo@ursamundi.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">they're
just there because enough people have camped in the same
spot.</blockquote></div><br><br></span>+0,9<br></div><div
class="gmail_extra">actually people (if not completely ignorant) tend to
camp in spots that are suitable to do so. Those will not be the only
possibility, naturally, but they will typically provide good conditions
(view, even terrain, enough space, protected from wind and weather, sunny /
shady, accessible, ...), so even if those spots are not designated for
camping but only put into existence by usage, knowing their location might
still be useful.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Especially since
low-impact campers will usually try to pick a spot that has already been
impacted in an effort to reduce increasing a manmade impact footprint
(assuming we're not talking <a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tre_Arrow">Tre Arrow</a> types), knowing
where these are in advance can be handy. Such a spot can be found at the
hook end of NFD 4420 in the MHNF near <a
href="http://osm.org/go/WILBqCsE--?m=">http://osm.org/go/WILBqCsE--?m=</a>
(which, coincidentally, someone should check to see who is deleting vast
shitloads of tracks in that forest, since I know there was far, far, far
more NFD routes in there than appear on OSM now, and I know NFD 44 is
littered with all kinds of four-digit branches, largely ungated and open.
I suspect some vandalism or a potentially accidental deletion may have been
in play.</div><div><br></div><div>BTW, I based on local knowledge, I
recommend<i> not</i> attempting to ground survey this until June or July as
Dufur Valley Road (NFD 44) is not plowed by the Forest Service at all, full
length. The Boy Scouts of America do plow from Heimrich Street in Dufur,
Oregon to NFD 4460 (Camp Baldwin's driveway) for the livability of
their camp ranger, who is there year-round. The ~11 mile segment west of
4460 to OR 35 is impassable until the thaw, often well into June assuming
the BSA doesn't plow open the west end to avoid a lengthy detour for
summer camp troops around on I 84 to loop back to Dufur and come up from
the other side in years with a long winter. (Can you tell I've spent
way too long on 44?)</div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div
class="gmail_extra"></div><div class="gmail_extra">We could be using the
"informal" modifier for places like this, which I use on paths as
well.<br><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal"
target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal</a><br><br></div>Just
"informal=yes" together with tourism=camp_site doesn't sound
right though, I'd probably use something different as main tag to
stronger distinguish these features, e.g. leisure=camp_spot or
tourism=camp_spot to make clear it is a smaller place. When there is a
recognizable and reasonably secure spot to light a fire you could add
additional feature like <a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dfirepit"
target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dfirepit</a><br><div
class="gmail_extra"></div></blockquote></div><br>I think a freestanding
campsite using the established tag (but not within a campground or caravan
site) should suffice.</div></div>
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</blockquote>
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