<div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>I like the idea behind this proposal overall but feel some clarifications are needed. In the first section: <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;line-height:24px">Designated means set aside for the purpose of camping, so that part is fine. But then </span>you say:</div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">2. Designated campground (</span><tt dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:monospace,Courier;font-size:18.3999996185303px;white-space:pre;background-color:rgb(221,221,238)"><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:camp_site&action=edit&redlink=1" class="" title="Key:camp site (page does not exist)" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(165,88,88);background:none">camp_site</a>=<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:camp_site%3Ddesignated&action=edit&redlink=1" class="" title="Tag:camp site=designated (page does not exist)" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(165,88,88);background:none">designated</a></tt><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">) - areas that are made available for camping on a non-commercial basis, usually for an overnight RV or caravan stay, but that are equipped with no or few facilities and charge no or a nominal fee;</span></div></blockquote><div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px">if you reword it to say:</span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px"> "areas that are available for camping on a non-commercial basis, often for RV or caravan use, and that have at a minimum facilities like toilets, trash disposal and drinking water. Such sites may be free or charge a fee and may be located inside a public park or other recreation area. If the site is only for tents or only for RVs, add caravan=no or tents=no, etc. "</span></font></div></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px">you will remove the bias toward RVs your version has and expand the definition to include more campgrounds. This sort of campground, along with the commercial types, is probably the most common type in the U.S. If you leave it as is, the bulk of the camping facilities in the U.S. and Alaska will not have a strong match to any of your categories. </span></font><span style="line-height:24px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif">With this definition there, you can discard the 6th category entirely. I would venture to say 99% of campgrounds inside of National and State Parks and National Recreation areas are "designated", you cannot just camp anywhere. </span></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px">Under Rendering:</span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px">Your choice of an RV icon for designated sites is not good because it implies RV usage is the major type of camping at this place.</span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px">Also, you say </span></font></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">Commercial and undefined campgrounds: Blue tent symbol </span><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Camping.n.16.png" class="" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px;background-image:none;background-repeat:initial"><img alt="Camping.n.16.png" src="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/4/47/Camping.n.16.png" width="16" height="16" style="border: none; vertical-align: middle;"></a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px"> as currently in place</span><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px"><br></span></font></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;line-height:24px">Why do you use the word undefined. It's the first time that word appears in the proposal and has no . I think you should say, commercial sites or sites that are tagged tourism=camp_site but have no other clarifying tags, should get the blue tent symbol.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;line-height:24px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;line-height:24px">Regards,</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;line-height:24px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;line-height:24px">Dave</span></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:24px"><br></span></font></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 3:59 AM, Jan van Bekkum <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jan.vanbekkum@gmail.com" target="_blank">jan.vanbekkum@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I have updated the <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/camp_site%3D*" target="_blank">proposal</a> with the feedback as much as possible.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div><div dir="ltr">Met vriendelijke groet/with kind regards,<br><br><i>Jan van Bekkum</i><div><a href="http://www.DeEinderVoorbij.nl" target="_blank">www.DeEinderVoorbij.nl</a></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 1:55 PM, John Willis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnw@mac.com" target="_blank">johnw@mac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
I understand the risk of confusion, but:<br>
<br>
A - if there is any "informal" kind of tag there would be people who tag particularly good sites to pitch a tent in national parks or whatnot with them, and though I can only think of a couple myself I'd consider good enough to map, people will want to share this as soon as they see "informal" is available, so...<br>
<br>
B - I don't want informal - either turnout car-camping, hotel adjacent camping, nor random trekking camp clearings confused in any way with proper, designated, car-camping /tent camping / caravan facilities - and giving people a couple extra tag values is going the reduce confusion so the actual maintained camp sites are labeled and marked correctly by taggers. I thought about the few car camping ("auto camp") / tent camping sites I'd seen in Japan recently and thought about how I would tag those, and the thoughts about tent platforms came to mind, for example, same with tagging their immaculate kitchens and amenities in another thread.<br>
<br>
I'm not a big camper anymore, nor campsite tagger, but I have been on hundreds of camping trips, covering every facility mentioned several times over (save RV/caravan sites) and there seems to be big distinctions between all the kinds I mentioned - and being able to convey those in tags seems relevant - though maybe my input is not as important because I'm not so interested in tagging those kind of sites.<br>
<br>
I hope my input was helpful, I will be voting yes on whatever is decided.<br>
<br>
Javbw<br>
<div><div><br>
> On Mar 15, 2015, at 8:46 PM, sly (sylvain letuffe) <<a href="mailto:liste2@letuffe.org" target="_blank">liste2@letuffe.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> dieterdreist wrote<br>
>>> Am 14.03.2015 um 05:41 schrieb John Willis <<br>
><br>
>> johnw@<br>
><br>
>> >:<br>
>>><br>
>>> and mapping them for other Trekkers would be useful only if they are not<br>
>>> confused at all with all of the other, more substatial or easily accessed<br>
>>> spots in a camp or along a road.<br>
>><br>
>> +1, I believe the tag for informal camping spots should not just be a sub<br>
>> key added to the same tag as for a commercial or otherwise official camp<br>
>> site, it should be a different main tag<br>
><br>
> +1 from me as well. Too much risks of confusion of too different concepts.<br>
> (Please note that I just discovered on that page the existence of<br>
> impromptu=yes which imho should be warned against on the wiki, and given<br>
> it's rather low usage (400) after 8 years of existence, could also be marked<br>
> as proposed for deprecation in favor of another tourism=x top tag<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----<br>
> --<br>
> sly, contact direct : sylvain /a\ letuffe o r g<br>
> <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Sletuffe" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Sletuffe</a><br>
> --<br>
> View this message in context: <a href="http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Tagging-established-unofficial-and-wild-campings-tp5834677p5837225.html" target="_blank">http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Tagging-established-unofficial-and-wild-campings-tp5834677p5837225.html</a><br>
> Sent from the Tagging mailing list archive at Nabble.com.<br>
><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Dave Swarthout<br>Homer, Alaska<br>Chiang Mai, Thailand<br>Travel Blog at <a href="http://dswarthout.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://dswarthout.blogspot.com</a></div></div>
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