<html>
<head>
<meta name="generator" content="Windows Mail 17.5.9600.20689">
<style data-externalstyle="true"><!--
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph {
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
}
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
}
p.MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst, li.MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst, div.MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst,
p.MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle, li.MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle, div.MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle,
p.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast, li.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast, div.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast {
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
line-height:115%;
}
--></style></head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div data-externalstyle="false" dir="ltr" style="font-family: 'Calibri', 'Segoe UI', 'Meiryo', 'Microsoft YaHei UI', 'Microsoft JhengHei UI', 'Malgun Gothic', 'sans-serif';font-size:12pt;"><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;">I better understand your requirements now, thanks for that.</div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;">I've looked at your site and pictures and feel we heave a fundamental problem. Designated is fine and existing tags cover it but non_designated is harder to agree to because of its temporary nature, I’m not sure OSM is the place for such transitory, temporary data.</div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;">If a place that many travellers have found over a period of time exists then it is as permanent as any commercial campsite therefore can be tagged as now.</div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;">As for Wildcamp spots then this is just a place you’ve found convenient to stop and shouldn’t be mapped other than as a car park or layby using existing tags.</div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;">Wildcamping is a very specific activity and shouldn’t made official.<br></div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;" data-signatureblock="true"><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;">Jonathan<br><br>-----------------------<br>http://bigfatfrog67.me</div><div style="color: rgb(55, 86, 35); font-size: 14pt;"><br></div></div><div style="padding-top: 5px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid;"><div><font face=" 'Calibri', 'Segoe UI', 'Meiryo', 'Microsoft YaHei UI', 'Microsoft JhengHei UI', 'Malgun Gothic', 'sans-serif'" style='line-height: 15pt; letter-spacing: 0.02em; font-family: "Calibri", "Segoe UI", "Meiryo", "Microsoft YaHei UI", "Microsoft JhengHei UI", "Malgun Gothic", "sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt;'><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:jan.vanbekkum@gmail.com" target="_parent">Jan van Bekkum</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 26 March 2015 10:56<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_parent">Tag discussion, strategy and related tools</a></font></div></div><div><br></div><div dir=""><div dir="ltr">Our blog can be found at <a href="http://www.DeEinderVoorbij.nl" target="_parent">www.DeEinderVoorbij.nl</a>, video clips of our trips at <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/JanvanBekkum" target="_parent">https://www.youtube.com/user/JanvanBekkum</a>.<div><br></div><div>Many places we visited in Iran and east Africa for sure are no campgrounds according to western standards, but if you need a place for the night your standards adapt quickly. We also had many superb wild camps (different set of images I am happy to share).</div><div><br></div><div>You must have visited the place or have a report from earlier visitors to map it properly, but once you have been at the place classification is very simple and well visible.</div><div><br></div><div>Most often we found the non-designated places from reports and blogs of earlier travellers (we made an overview ourselves as well <a href="http://www.deeindervoorbij.nl/camping.html" target="_parent">http://www.deeindervoorbij.nl/camping.html</a>), from travel guides like Lonely Planet or by just asking at hotels. We recently came in touch with <a href="http://ioverlander.com/" target="_parent">iOverlander</a>. iOverlander currently maintains a proprietary database, but considers to get the "hard" data from OSM in future. Soft data (visitor reports and ratings) and images would stay in their own database.</div><div><br></div><div>As far as tagging is concerned I think it is quite simple. We have three main categories designated, non-designated and wild. As designated is the default it would not need a special attribute; non-designated would get an extra attribute while wild would get it own namespace tag. Trekking camps are in the designated group.</div><div><br></div><div>Classification as proposed by Dave Bannon a.o. would be by means of an additional attribute tag for designated campsites.</div><div><br></div><div>Any category (also wild) can have additional attributes to describe facilities.</div><div><br></div><div>Examples:</div><div><ul style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: disc;"><li>Regular campground with toilets, water, power, shower, internet:<br>tourism=camp_site<br>camp_site=serviced (definition Dave B.)<br>internet=wlan</li><li>A hotel offering to put the car on their parking lot and a toilet:<br>tourism=camp_site<br>camp_site=non_designated<br>toilets=yes</li><li>A place next to a city park with public toilets (like we used in Iran):<br>tourism=wild_camp_site<br>toilets=yes</li></ul></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 10:04 AM David Bannon <<a href="mailto:dbannon@internode.on.net" target="_parent">dbannon@internode.on.net</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">On Thu, 2015-03-26 at 09:10 +0100, Jan van Bekkum wrote:<br>
> To give you a better impression of what I mean with non-designated<br>
> campsites I uploaded images of places we stayed at in Iran, Ethiopia,<br>
> Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi and Malawi. Have a look here and<br>
> enjoy. As you can see the quality of the places varies wildly.<br>
><br>
Yep, as you say, "wildly" ! I would not consider them camp sites to be<br>
honest !<br>
<br>
I am not as organised as you, but just uploaded a couple of my sort of<br>
camp sites -<br>
<a href="http://bannons.id.au/uploads/agate_creek.jpg" target="_parent">http://bannons.id.au/uploads/<u></u>agate_creek.jpg</a><br>
<a href="http://bannons.id.au/uploads/obriens.jpg" target="_parent">http://bannons.id.au/uploads/<u></u>obriens.jpg</a><br>
<br>
Its going to be hard to talk about these in the same voice ....<br>
<br>
Is the solution to invent a set new of tags ? Or qualifiers to the<br>
suggested values ?<br>
<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_parent">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_parent">https://lists.openstreetmap.<u></u>org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>
</div></div>
</body>
</html>