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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:Wingdings'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>Ø<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US>access=designated is not what you want.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>For clarification, I don’t use ‘access’=designated but ‘bicycle’=designated, ‘foot’=designated etc. Just like the wiki page sais : “The <i>exact</i> key/value combination </span><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;background:#DDDDEE'><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access" title="Key:access"><span lang=EN-US>access</span></a></span></tt><tt><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;background:#DDDDEE'>=</span></tt><strong><span lang=EN-US style='background:#DDDDEE'>designated</span></strong><span lang=EN-US> should <b>never</b> appear on an object”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:Wingdings'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>Ø<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US>What is wrong with using the tag bicycle=yes ? Bicycles are 'permitted' .. but not necessarily marked by/on the roadway. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>IMO “bicycle=yes” or “foot=yes” are not enough, also permitted is not correct since these road parts are exclusively designated for a specific road use (as you put it.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I will try to explain my issue with the example of two segregated cycle- and footway. One with a traffic sign [1] and other one without a traffic sign [2]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Both ways are designated for pedestrians and cyclists, each with their own part of the way.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>But only the way with the traffic sign will be tagged with bicycle=designated, foot=designated using the definition in the description box<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>That is not logical, because both ways are still equally designated to pedestrians and cyclist in both situations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hubert<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Z241GetrennterRadUndGehweg.png<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:GetrennterRadUndGehweg.jpeg<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Warin [mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 24. Juli 2015 16:20<br><b>To:</b> tagging@openstreetmap.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] access=designated wiki<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 24/07/2015 11:42 PM, Hubert wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Well, there a ways that are “designated” for specific road users but are not marked explicitly and must be recognized through their design.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>I would put that as <o:p></o:p></p><p>There are ways that are intended for a specific road use... <o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For example sidewalks. They are designated for pedestrians and could tag – ignoring the tag it as a sub key discussion – as highway=footway (implying foot=designated).</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Same for cycle ways, at least in Germany as you might know (Pictures 1 and 2). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So requiring a way to be marked is too strong for that definition.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p>True. access=designated is not what you want. <o:p></o:p></p><p>What is wrong with using the tag bicycle=yes ? Bicycles are 'permitted' .. but not necessarily marked by/on the roadway. <o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hubert</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Picture 1 : <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:RadwegOhneBenutzungspflicht.jpg">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:RadwegOhneBenutzungspflicht.jpg</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Picture 2 : <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:GetrennterRadUndGehweg.jpeg">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:GetrennterRadUndGehweg.jpeg</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:jonathan@bigfatfrog67.me">jonathan@bigfatfrog67.me</a> [<a href="mailto:jonathan@bigfatfrog67.me">mailto:jonathan@bigfatfrog67.me</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 24. Juli 2015 15:05<br><b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] access=designated wiki</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#375623'>I agree with Volker. To me designated meant “what it is says on the roadside signage”. Usually seen where there are unique or special circumstances restricting access.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#375623'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#375623'>Jonathan<br><br><a href="http://bigfatfrog67.me">http://bigfatfrog67.me</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#375623'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E5E5E5 1.0pt;padding:4.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";letter-spacing:.25pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";letter-spacing:.25pt'> <a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_parent">Warin</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 24 July 2015 13:50<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_parent">Tag discussion, strategy and related tools</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>On 24/07/2015 9:30 PM, Hubert wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hallo,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>during a discussion within the german forum [1], I have been pointed to the description box of the “access=designated” wikipage [2].</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>It reads “A way marked for a particular use.”.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I would like to change it to “A way designated for a particular use” or “A way intended for a particular use.”. Probably the latter one.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The reason is, that the word “marked” implies that a way is ,well, marked with a traffic sign or by road paintings, which is not necessarily true. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Also the topic ”general use case” is not that strictly formulated as the “description” box and allows the use of “designated” in a much wider range of cases.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Are there any objections against me change that word?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>For me, Yes. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><p>Meaning I object. <span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>If it is not marked .. than how do you (or anyone) know that it is 'designated'? <br><br></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ummm 'marked' could mean it is 'marked' on some plan or other rather than 'marked' by a traffic sign or by road painting ... but I'd think if it is not marked locally then the 'designation' will be ineffective. <br>OSM is supposed to reflect what is 'on the ground' so marked is appropriate. Particularly by a traffic sign or by road painting.<br><br>Happy to be persuaded otherwise... <br>Could you provide a link to the German discussion? That may help. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Tagging mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>