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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 30/10/2015 6:34 PM, Gerd Petermann
wrote:<br>
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<p>reg. decisions (off topic):</p>
<p>I losely follow this list since years without contributing.<br>
</p>
<p>My understanding of it (the tagging list) so far :</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It helps to collect different views, that's great, and that's
why we need it.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It cannot help much finding decisions, as it only represents
a few <br>
</p>
<p>(hopefully) actvice and experienced mappers, not the vast
majority of <br>
</p>
<p>mappers. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I guess the "decision" happens when the wiki pages or<br>
</p>
<p>OSM editors (the tools) are changed to supoort or discourage
special tags.</p>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<tt>If a majority of mappers decide to use a tag;<br>
even one unsupported by the tagging list, unsupported by the OSM
editors </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>and lots of these tags appear in the data base then it may
well become a supported tag, despite the tagging list and the OSM
editors. </tt><br>
<br>
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<p>So, it is again up to a few people, at least for those
tagging issues for objects which</p>
<p>are rare, like my weighbridge question. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<tt>The few people can guide. They can object. But they cannot easily
dictate. <br>
Please contribute your ideas and opinions, you may represent many
who do not look at the tagging list. <br>
Weighbridges may be fewer than highways, but more plentiful than
kilns. <br>
Some feature in OSM has to be the most plentiful, and another the
lest plentiful. <br>
They are each important to someone, that is why someone mapped
them. <br>
</tt>
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<p><br>
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<p><br>
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<br>
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<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>Von:</b>
Colin Smale <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:colin.smale@xs4all.nl"><colin.smale@xs4all.nl></a><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 01:15<br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Tagging] More human readable values
for traffic signs</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
<div> </div>
<p>Ok, I'm impressed...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Can you give some examples of the "tagfiddling" you refer
to, that annoys you? How do we fix that?</p>
<p>What tires me, is the lack of any decision-making process
which is paralysing the whole business, and the lack of
any (formal) attention for the data quality. Where is the
(qualified) voice of data architectures, ontologies, data
modelling, future-proofing, etc etc? All the energy spent
on these mailing lists debating what are sometimes almost
trivial issues could better be spent powering a large
town. Some kind of "poster on the wall", an information
framework, a metamodel, a data architecture, a governance
model etc etc might allow some of this energy to be
directed at more productive things that will enable
real progress and growth, like 3D, data lifecycle,
multi-valued and complex-valued attributes, and how
(process-wise) to clean up and refactor "legacy" tagging
(to name but a few of the many things that IMHO "need
attention").</p>
<p>//colin</p>
<p>On 2015-10-29 23:18, Richard Fairhurst wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0 0.4em;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin:0">
<div class="pre" style="margin:0; padding:0;
font-family:monospace"><span style="white-space:nowrap">On 29/10/2015 21:52, Colin Smale wrote:</span>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0 0.4em;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin:0">
<span style="white-space:nowrap">I don't have any examples to counter your statement. But I am assuming</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">you are referring to the use of a spatial database. It is IMHO a high</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">barrier to entry. Are we to expect users to have that kind of</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">infrastructure and skills at their disposal? What about mkgmap and the</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">many other consumers which simply work with a snapshot in PBF or XML and</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">need to be able to do the right thing with the data with lets say a dual</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">core and 8GB.</span></blockquote>
<br>
Indeed. It's very possible to "do the right thing" by
running spatial queries on the data, without a spatial
database, working directly on a PBF snapshot, and
running lightning fast in just a few GB of memory and on
a desktop-class machine.<br>
<br>
I can confirm this because I've done exactly that, in a
tool which I'm delighted to see is proving popular:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" id="LPlnk281182"
href="https://github.com/systemed/tilemaker">https://github.com/systemed/tilemaker</a>,
and in particular,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/systemed/tilemaker/blob/master/CONFIGURATION.md#lua-spatial-queries">https://github.com/systemed/tilemaker/blob/master/CONFIGURATION.md#lua-spatial-queries</a>
.
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id="LPTitle_14461887801560.7728140825603806">
systemed/tilemaker · GitHub</div>
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font-family:
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rgb(102, 102, 102); margin-left: 14px;
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id="LPDescription_14461887801560.19214184356132313">
README.md Tilemaker. Tilemaker creates
vector tiles (in Mapbox Vector Tile format)
from an .osm.pbf planet extract, as
typically downloaded from providers like
Geofabrik.</div>
<div style="margin: 8px 14px 10px; height:
18px; text-overflow: ellipsis; overflow:
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Informationen...</a></div>
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<br>
<br>
That aside, even if you accept that the interests of the
data consumer are paramount - which, as a data consumer,
I don't, and I'm rather tired of tagfiddlers without
development knowledge second-guessing what developers
might need - the number of consumers to whom it's
important to differentiate (say) UK and French no entry
signs is an 0.001% edge case, not one worthy of defining
the entire tagging model.<br>
<br>
You could just as well argue that you're penalising the
little guy by preventing him from searching simply for
"traffic_sign=no_entry" and making him search either for
193 country-specific values, or run one full-text query.
Given your concern about doing things "very cheaply",
I'm pretty sure more people have a spatial index on OSM
data than have a full-text index.<br>
<br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">But let's remind ourselves of Mateusz's original posting:</span><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0 0.4em;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin:0">
<span style="white-space:nowrap">I recently started tagging traffic signs and I am surprised by wide</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">usage country-specific traffic sign codes.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">I think that at least common signs may be tagged by human-readable</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">values.</span></blockquote>
<br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">Quite.</span><br>
<br>
Richard<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap">Tagging mailing list</span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a></a></span><br>
<span style="white-space:nowrap"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></a></span></div>
</blockquote>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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