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I have made clarifications about current tags on proposal page:<br>
<a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Education_2.0#Current_tagging_system"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Education_2.0#Current_tagging_system">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Education_2.0#Current_tagging_system</a></a><br>
Since education=* tags just duplicate amenity=school, college etc,
they fit proposal well. Subtags like <a
href="http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/education%3Astudents_female"><b>education</b>:students_female</a>
has no description and I just do not understand what they mean: only
female students allowed? or female students allowed as well as male?
Is it true for the whole institution or just for some educational
programs? This proposal does not concerns such undecribed tags so I
assume should not affect them. <br>
This proposal describes <b>only</b> educational services and
facilities, research services and institutions is huge topic and
thus should have their own proposal. As well daycares are not
educational institutions and that's why they are not in the
proposal. <br>
Also keep in mind that institution could possibly provide not only
educational services. For example massage parlor could teach
masseurs, but they main service is still massage. Because of that
some tag without "education:*" could be mistaken to apply to other
services: education of masseurs could be for people above 18, but
massage services are for people of any age. <br>
If there is no country standards but only Federal <span class="st">Land
(for Germany) standards, its is possible to insert Land ISO code
instead of countries. But I am sure that is the matter of
discussion of German community. Situation similar to
boundary=protected_area, every community should decide which set
of tags in the proposal appropriate for their country and in which
cases should be used.</span><br>
There is age discrimination in education. Some schools (especially
music ones) do not allow children above or below certain age. It is
unfair, but imho people should know that there is age restrictions
in such educational facility. Age categories taken from Healthcare
2.0 proposal, maybe they do not fit. I will consider it. <br>
I also agree about boarding and fulltime extended, I'll add this in
the proposal.<br>
<br>
I think mailing list could be not really suitable for such lengthy
discussions. I invite you to discuss details on the discussion page,
if you wish:<br>
<a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Education_2.0"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Education_2.0">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Education_2.0</a></a><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">13.04.2016 12:44, Martin Koppenhoefer
пишет:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABPTjTCt5gY1r50=jR=45iJ6+DGU_43dPJrHDZfn3r12h0Xrbg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>I think this proposal is quite elaborate and could be
useful (with some modifications) as a kind of summary page
to find useful tags for a particular school to be tagged
as. It also contains useful concepts how additional detail
could be added in a formalized way. But I don't think this
is something that should get "approved" and then the whole
tagging system that already is established, would be
changed accordingly and hundreds of thousands of objects
would get retagged – no.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
education=* is currently tagged on 1000 objects. Did you
check whether these confirm with this proposal? <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/education#values"
target="_blank">http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/education#values</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>There are also quite some education-namespace-subkeys
in use, that are not yet in the education 2.0 proposal.
Will these be integrated?<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=education"
target="_blank">http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=education</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
This is quite a long list of tags.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I'll comment on some tags where I believe comments are
most useful:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<tt style="background:rgb(221,221,238) none repeat scroll 0%
0%;white-space:nowrap" dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education"
title="Key:education" target="_blank">education</a>=kindergarten</tt>
<br>
<tt style="background:rgb(221,221,238) none repeat scroll 0%
0%;white-space:nowrap" dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education"
title="Key:education" target="_blank">education</a>=school</tt>
<br>
<tt style="background:rgb(221,221,238) none repeat scroll 0%
0%;white-space:nowrap" dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education"
title="Key:education" target="_blank">education</a>=college</tt>
<br>
<tt style="background:rgb(221,221,238) none repeat scroll 0%
0%;white-space:nowrap" dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education"
title="Key:education" target="_blank">education</a>=university</tt>
<br>
<br>
these appear to be all duplicates of amenity=... In your
reasoning you write that the advantage of moving these to a
new key is avoiding to keep a list of education related
features in the amenity tags, but 'd rather keep this list
than retagging all those objects and change all those data
consumers.<br>
</div>
<br>
I also believe that these are too few classes to differentiate
the type of institutions that occur (or you put them all under
"school" and shift the problem one level up). E.g.
professional schools (in German: Berufsbildende Schulen,
further distinguished in Berufsschule and Berufsfachschule,
see here in German: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berufsbildende_Schule">https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berufsbildende_Schule</a>
), Fachhochschulen (Wikipedia:en calls them vocational
universities: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_university">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_university</a>
) and likely more.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>What about research institutes? Not sure if they do
educate, but I guess some might be considered also
educational.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also on the lower end, there are some differentiations that
I miss in your scheme, e.g. daycare for children under the age
of 3 (maybe not educational?), daycare for children after the
kindergarten or school closes, ...<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Further differentiation of schools (primary education,
secondary education, different types of them). There are quite
a lot of different particularities of schools if you look at
the details (that are indeed interesting for who wants to
select a school), and those are mostly country specific (or
even sub-country specific, like in the case of Germany).<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>There are quite some amenity=childcare (5k+) in use right
now, but the proposal doesn't mention it:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=amenity%3Dchildcare">http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=amenity%3Dchildcare</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>There are also 191 amenity=preschool in use:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=amenity%3Dpreschool">http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=amenity%3Dpreschool</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<tt style="background:rgb(221,221,238) none repeat scroll 0%
0%;white-space:nowrap" dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education"
title="Key:education" target="_blank">education</a>=subdivision</tt><br>
<br>
there are also these keys in use:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/faculty#overview"
target="_blank">http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/faculty#overview</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/institute" target="_blank">http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/institute</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
education_for:<b>ages</b><br>
</div>
<div>Have a look at the introduced tags min_age and max_age that
are dealt with here:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dkindergarten">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dkindergarten</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>education_fee=*<br>
</div>
<div>Why should we prepend the "education_" part to the well
introduced key "fee" (also suggested on the kindergarten page
linked above)? Are there different fees we would potentially
want to tag for educational features?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
education_system:de_standard=yes<br>
</div>
<div>This is not working, because a country code is not
sufficient in Germany: there is no "German" standard, every
Land has it's own standard, as education is the task of the
Länder. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
education_for:<b>child</b> children (4-11 years)
education_for:<b>adolescent</b> adolescents (12-19 years)
education_for:<b>adult</b> adults (20 years and above)
education_for:<b>senior</b> senior (60 years and above)
education_for:<b>boy</b> boys (males below 20)
education_for:<b>girl</b> girls (females below 20)
education_for:<b>man</b> adult men (above 20)
education_for:<b>woman</b> adult women (above 20)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I don't think we should create age groups like this. These
will always be completely arbitrary and depend on
countryspecific legislation and will not fit well in a tagging
scheme intended to map the whole world. E.g. adults starting
at the age of 20 is not something that sounds familiar to me,
generally there are different relevant ages that determine
this step, e.g. age of majority, voting age, legal drinking
age, marriageable age, age of consent, ...<br>
</div>
<div>Have a look here where the age of majority is set in
different countries: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority#Countries_and_subdivisions">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority#Countries_and_subdivisions</a><br>
</div>
<div>(note that the majority seems to set it at 18, although I
didn't sum the populations up). I believe the min_age and
max_age concept offers much more flexibility.<br>
Similar considerations are valid for the other age group tags.<br>
</div>
<div>There is also an inherent problem leaving a gap for the age
of 20 (adults are defined as 20+ while men and women are
defined as 21+ and boys and girls are defined as 0-19).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>"boarding=yes" for boarding schools<br>
</div>
<div>You prepended "education_" to almost every tag, but you
didn't do it here, where it would be quite useful, as
"boarding" does require context to understand the meaning, and
there is the risk that the same tag might be used in different
context as well. You can also see this from the (few) already
used tags: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=boarding">http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=boarding</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt style="background:rgb(221,221,238) none repeat scroll 0%
0%;white-space:nowrap" dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:single_gender_education&action=edit&redlink=1"
class="" title="Key:single gender education (страница не
существует)">single_gender_education</a>=yes</tt>. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>according to spelling rules this should likely be
"single-gender_education"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>education_form:fulltime / parttime<br>
</div>
<div>If you look at a specific place, e.g. Berlin, you will see
that there are more classes in use:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
- halbtags (half a day, 4-5 hours/day)<br>
</div>
<div>- teilzeit (parttime, 5-7 hours/day)<br>
</div>
<div>- ganztags (fulltime, 7-9hours/day)<br>
</div>
<div>- ganztags erweitert (fulltime extended, more than 9
hours/day)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
Reference (see page 2, 1.5): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.berlin.de/ba-mitte/politik-und-verwaltung/aemter/jugendamt/kindertagesbetreuung/kita-und-hortanmeldungen/2013_kitaantrag_mit_einkommenserklaerung.pdf">https://www.berlin.de/ba-mitte/politik-und-verwaltung/aemter/jugendamt/kindertagesbetreuung/kita-und-hortanmeldungen/2013_kitaantrag_mit_einkommenserklaerung.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div>The scheme should be extended to cater at least for these
additional classes (or changed to be more flexible, e.g.
indicate the number of hours).<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Please excuse the brevity of my review but I don't have
more time for this at the moment ;-)<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,<br>
</div>
<div>Martin<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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