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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFQ7s75fckwr4hefTSqUec_2Mj+8Hx+3H+C=hF6S2U=e2EA1Xg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François
Lacombe" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com">fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
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<div dir="ltr">Hi Warin,<br>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
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<div class="quoted-text">2017-02-13 8:42
GMT+01:00 Warin <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com"
target="_blank">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span
class="m_-1006654960532443629gmail-"><br>
</span> In Australia;<br>
Heavy industry gets 3 phases.<br>
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<div>Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases
depends on needs.<br>
</div>
<div>Here 3-phases for heavy industry : <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%216m1%211e1"
target="_blank">https://www.google.fr/maps/@<wbr>45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,<wbr>219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!<wbr>3m4!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!<wbr>2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>2-phases for train traction (2 separate
circuits of 2 phases each) :<br>
</div>
<div>From public power grid : <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70%218m2%213d45.275403%214d6.344886%216m1%211e1"
target="_blank">https://www.google.fr/maps/<wbr>place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-<wbr>Maurienne/@43.830987,4.<wbr>5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.<wbr>85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!<wbr>1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!<wbr>7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!<wbr>1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:<wbr>0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.<wbr>275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1</a><br>
</div>
<div>To traction substation : <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70%218m2%213d45.275403%214d6.344886%216m1%211e1"
target="_blank">https://www.google.fr/maps/<wbr>place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-<wbr>Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.<wbr>5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/<wbr>data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!<wbr>1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ!2e0!<wbr>7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!<wbr>1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:<wbr>0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.<wbr>275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1</a></div>
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<div dir="auto">For the Philippines, two or three phases for the
primary are for large commercial customers, but the output, it
is three-phase (220/380, 220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150,
880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz). Households use single-phase,
either two-wire (220 volts) or three-wire systems (220/440
volts, though electricity meters show "240 volts", which is
within the tolerance of 220 volts, the peak voltage of one
phase wire of the system</div>
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</blockquote>
<br>
Errr most places this is the RMS voltage, not the peak voltage. <br>
The 240 220 230 volts conflicts have been discussed for many years
at an international level. Now they agree that their present
tolerances encompass an agreed range ... that encompasses all those
voltages. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFQ7s75fckwr4hefTSqUec_2Mj+8Hx+3H+C=hF6S2U=e2EA1Xg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">), depending on location. The two-wire system is
common on the province usually served by electric
cooperatives, but the three-wire system is used on areas
served by major private electric utilities (Meralco, Visayas
Electric Company/VECO, Davao Light, Cotabato Light and Power,
etc.)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Traction power in the Philippines (for the Metro
Manila transit systems only), is rather DC only, fed from the
three-phase distribution systems, transformed to the traction
voltage, then rectified to DC. No AC traction systems still
exists in the Philippines, but perhaps, may be used in the
future on new lines or mainline electrification.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_extra">
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> A few houses may get
2 phases if their load is very large ..
but it is unusual and a safety concern, no
single room should have more than one
phase. <br>
Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually
where the workshop has a requirement for a
3 phase motor/furnace.<br>
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<div>+1 same here, 3-phases fed households tend
to disapear while current usage is single
phase + neutral pole.<br>
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<div dir="auto">I concur. Single-phase (line-neutral) or
split-phase (line-neutral-line) is the primary household
distribution systems, while a household customer on an area
primarily using single-phase, but requiring three-phase needs
a separate transformer, at least the line has the phases
required, otherwise, the customer would require the nearby
distribution line to have the additional wires and the
dedicated transformer, or use a phase converter.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Single-phase supplies by households may be
derived from a three-phase line, but a single-phase line may
do. The single-phase transformers may have one or two
primaries (though one bushing is connected to ground instead
on another phase wire and serves as a surge arrestor, like the
case of transformers used to provide 220 volt single-phase
power in most provinces of the Philippines), but the
secondaries may be single-phase (line-neutral) or split-phase
(line-neutral-line). Single-phase (line-neutral) may use a
transformer with one or two bushings (the latter has the
second bushing being a surge arrestor, being connected to
ground instead on another primary), but for split-phase
(line-neutral-line), the transformer may have one or two
primary bushings, but on the case of two bushings, the second
one may be connected to another phase or ground.</div>
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<div> <br>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span
class="m_-1006654960532443629gmail-"> </span>
Transformers will have an input voltage
and an output voltage, usually these
voltages are different.<br>
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<div>Sure, currently voltage=* expects a list
with upper voltage;lower voltage.<br>
</div>
<div>Or voltage-up and voltage-down can be used.
I'm in favor of voltage:primary +
voltage:secondary (+ voltage:tertiary if
transformer got more than 2 interfaces).<br>
</div>
<div>Another proposal will be completed later
for this.<br>
</div>
<div class="quoted-text">
<div> </div>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Most of the time
these voltages will be on the lines
connected to the transformer (and the
pole) and would be redundant.<br>
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<div>Yes they have to, but a pole can carry
several lines or circuits in the same line. If
lines/circuits are operated at different
voltages, which one will serve the
transformer(s) exactly ?<br>
</div>
<div>Furthermore, even if a single line is
supported by the pole, which side of the
transformer is connected to it ?<br>
</div>
<div>I'm thinking of a pole carrying a "low
voltage" line used for distribution, hosting a
transformer at the top of it and the
transformer gets its power from an underground
"high voltage" cable rising up on the pole
itself. Then you'll need to know the voltages
of both cable and line AND the voltages of
transformer's sides to say the overhead "low
voltage" line is fed wheter by the primary or
secondary interface.</div>
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<div>It's a bit complex and I see no redundancy
here.<br>
</div>
<div class="quoted-text">
<div> </div>
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<div dir="auto">On a multi-level pole, the line where the
transformer is found may be indicated by a power route
relation, if there is. The pole where the transformer is found
may be tagged with the transformer role, and it is important
on lines with multiple circuits, but on single-circuit lines,
it is optional.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">And for a transformer feeding a low voltage line
from a high voltage underground cable rising on the pole
(through the pole itself, or on a concrete structure with
pipes embedded) I found some instances of it in the
Philippines. One example is a pole with three single-phase
transformers serving as a three-phase transformer, and the
primary comes from underneath.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <br>
Switches ... usually used for isolation.<br>
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<div>Can you elaborate a bit more please ?<br>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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Not certain what elaboration you need? Isolation ...is simply
turning a line off, for maintenance/repair.<br>
Switches on poles tend to be manual (mechanical). Switches in
substations and stations tend to be automatic. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFQ7s75fckwr4hefTSqUec_2Mj+8Hx+3H+C=hF6S2U=e2EA1Xg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">On a pole with two or more levels (i.e.
cross-arms), I used two solutions:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> 1. Tag the pole-mounted switch with switch=*
separated by pipes (|), so, for tagging a switch on the lowest
cross-arm of a two-level pole, it will be tagged
switch=|mechanical. So, for a switch on the upper cross-arm in
the same situation, it is vice versa (i.e. switch=mechanical|)</div>
<div dir="auto"> 2. On a relation of the line where the switch
belongs, tag the pole with the switch role.</div>
<div dir="auto">
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<div>All the best<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
</font></div>
<font color="#888888">
<div>François</div>
</font></div>
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