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<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>it's not (anymore) about "treated a bit unfairly",<br>
but to avoid futher issues like that.</p>
<p>The automatic reply has to be misunderstood (what Martin was
referring to Mon, 6 Mar 2017 17:37:52 +0100)<br>
and will lead to "process problems" like the current (as long as
the promised check by the "moderator" doesn't take place).<br>
</p>
<p>I'm not really sure about which issue you talk in the 2nd part of
your message "not actual rules",<br>
do you refer to my entry in the proposal about a "code of conduct"
?</p>
<p>Regarding the 3rd part ("tags in OSM") :<br>
I wanted to have this tag harmonized,, but there was little to no
reaction on my proposal mail.<br>
<br>
After the voting had taken place and more noticed the wiki entry,<br>
there was at least a question about the definition of "yes",<br>
which I appreciated :<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:motorcycle_friendly">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:motorcycle_friendly</a><br>
(while there were also some nit-picker questions as well in both,
wiki and proposal).</p>
<p>"own data, as an overlay" doesn't make sense to me in this case,<br>
as it's data the community should collect, not the transformation
of existing data collections <br>
("motorcycle friendly" web pages, as they are often randomly
listing hotels).<br>
This is the motivation of this tag.<br>
</p>
<p>Didn't understand what you mean with "digest approach" ?</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
Thilo<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.03.2017 um 04:15 schrieb David
Bannon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:eec17e5b-f294-4bb6-1895-6dd4aac2cab9@internode.on.net"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
On 07/03/17 04:55, Thilo Haug wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:7fa72a89-01fb-aa8b-797e-97c56d0f1744@gmx.de"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
......
<p>I (accidentally) unsubscribed because of the "spam" coming
in,<br>
means I didn't get just messages regarding the topic.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
Thilo, perhaps thats the underlying problem here ? You read the
rules on the wiki, complied with what you understood and now, I
guess feel as if you are being treated a bit unfairly ? However,
I doubt that any proposal has succeeded where the proposer has not
been a member of this list, been actively reading the messages at
least and probably been contributing as well.<br>
<br>
The truth is that not all the "rules" are on the wiki, there is a
huge quantity of community knowledge, not actual rules, and much
of it is accessible via this list. We have a large number of very
experienced database, rendering, mapping, cultural experts who
live here (no, I'm not one!). They comment on a proposal and help
a proposal comply with the OSM culture. Their "rules" are not
written down as the document would run to 100's pages and we'd
never agree on the content. Written rules have to cover every
possible situation. Too hard.<br>
<br>
This list is very welcoming, always open to new ideas and not, in
any way, locked into particular policies. Within the list you will
find widely differing views but always respect for others. <br>
<br>
To solve your problem Thilo, you could do a number of things.
Firstly, tags in OSM do not need be approved. I, personally don't
recommend unapproved tags but lots will disagree with me.
Alternatively, its relatively easy to put your own data, as an
overlay, onto an OSM map. Keep you data privately or put it into
one of the public POI databases. But really, I strongly recommend
you keep trying as you are, refine and improve your proposal with
the help of the mailing list, understand why OSM "rules" are what
they are. You can then make a good tag, one that can be used
around the world and rendered on lots of maps.<br>
<br>
By the way, I would not recommend the digest approach, I found it
harder to assign time to. Digest users, when replying, often seem
to forget to change the message title and are not always taken
seriously :-)<br>
<br>
David <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:7fa72a89-01fb-aa8b-797e-97c56d0f1744@gmx.de"
type="cite"><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.03.2017 um 18:09 schrieb
Martin Koppenhoefer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABPTjTDH8FvJAbHZO+nbWtjwJzgFXKE3VhwF8nbSp=FUUsuaWA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2017-03-06 17:46 GMT+01:00
Michael Reichert <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nakaner@gmx.net"
target="_blank">nakaner@gmx.net</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div id=":1jx" class="a3s aXjCH m15aa4855e510d66a">Hi
Martin and others,<br>
<span class=""><br>
Am 2017-03-06 um 17:37 schrieb Martin
Koppenhoefer:<br>
> yes, that wording is unfortunate, because in
most/many OSM mailing lists<br>
> messages never get approved. I am myself
admin of a very small regional ML<br>
> and from time to time there are periods where
a lot of spam arrives, I can<br>
> imagine checking held back messages in the
big lists would be a lot of work<br>
> (and mostly consist in rejecting spam). You
would also have to do it daily,<br>
> because after some time many messages will
seem out of context.<br>
<br>
</span>I have changed the wording of the wiki page
Proposal_Process today to<br>
stress the necessity to subscribe the Tagging
mailing list. Feel free to<br>
modify/revert it if you don't like it.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">As you name me in person: I was not
referring to the wording in the wiki but the wording of
the mailing list autoresponder message in case someone not
subscribed sends a message (and from the reply might get
to the impression that it will pass, which it in fact
almost never does for any of the OSM lists).<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Cheers,<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Martin<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Thilo Haug
Bismarckstr.37
72764 Reutlingen
Mobil: +49 177 3185856</pre>
<br>
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<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Thilo Haug
Bismarckstr.37
72764 Reutlingen
Mobil: +49 177 3185856</pre>
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