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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07-Mar-17 10:56 PM, Thilo Haug
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:7957edbc-9ce8-812a-12b8-58f16fcec10f@gmx.de"
type="cite">
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<p>Hi all,<br>
<br>
thanks to Martin for the clarification.<br>
</p>
<p>In the discussion of the (former voted) wiki entry :<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:motorcycle_friendly">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:motorcycle_friendly</a><br>
</p>
I referred to the definition of the German automobile club :<br>
<p>8X-----------<br>
The German automobile club has the following criteria : </p>
<ul>
<li> (Theft) safe and secure motorcycle parking areas. </li>
<li> Facilities for wet clothes. </li>
<li> Tools for minor repairs </li>
<li> Extensive information material (including tour suggestions,
excursion tips, road maps, useful addresses for motorcyclists)</li>
</ul>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" class="external free"
href="https://www.adac.de/reise_freizeit/motorrad/motorradfreundliche-gastgeber/qualitaetssiegel/default.aspx">https://www.adac.de/reise_freizeit/motorrad/motorradfreundliche-gastgeber/qualitaetssiegel/default.aspx</a><br>
8X-----------<br>
</p>
Those four points should be given if an item is categorized as
"yes".<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
You will get few that meet all of these criteria on a worldwide
basis. <br>
The proposal looks like it is a requirement to meet all 4 of these
criteria. <br>
<br>
In some climates wet weather is a lesser concern, so wet clothing
facilities are less frequently used and as such stored out of the
way - thus less obvious. <br>
'Extensive' is a subjective term. <br>
The word 'including' means that all these things are required to
meet the criteria. <br>
The words 'for example' could replace 'including' to allow a few of
these things or other things to be used to meet the criteria.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:7957edbc-9ce8-812a-12b8-58f16fcec10f@gmx.de"
type="cite"> <br>
"No" means they don't accept motorcyclists (seldom, but exists).<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I would take a broader view. I would take 'no' to mean 'discourages'
as well as the meaning 'rejects'. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:7957edbc-9ce8-812a-12b8-58f16fcec10f@gmx.de"
type="cite"> <br>
As there are certainly accommodations <br>
which just don't care about your means of transport,<br>
there is also a third option, which I called "customary", <br>
as this categorization is already in use (for nudism)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:nudism#Tagging">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:nudism#Tagging</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
The meaning of 'customary' is 'usual practice' ... what your
proposal takes as 'customary' is a lesser friendliness that the
'yes' case. This is not the meaning of the word 'customary'! And it
is confusing to a native English speaker.<br>
Do not use this word this way. <br>
<br>
A better word might be 'partial', meaning 'not total, but a bit'. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:7957edbc-9ce8-812a-12b8-58f16fcec10f@gmx.de"
type="cite"> <br>
So I think the criteria is quite clear and not "opinionated".<br>
In case the description could be improved, please let me know in
the "discussion" :<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/motorcycle_friendly#Proposal">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/motorcycle_friendly#Proposal</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Discussion can also take place here, and you should observe these
too. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:7957edbc-9ce8-812a-12b8-58f16fcec10f@gmx.de"
type="cite"> <br>
Cheers,<br>
Thilo<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.03.2017 um 11:20 schrieb Martin
Koppenhoefer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABPTjTCvWZASP42k_bWG5GupWrb1jyfdD5ntfMoqTR5Z0t+GfA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2017-03-07 10:58 GMT+01:00 Thilo
Haug <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thaug@gmx.de" target="_blank">thaug@gmx.de</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p>"own data, as an overlay" doesn't make sense to me in
this case,<br>
as it's data the community should collect, not the
transformation of existing data collections <br>
("motorcycle friendly" web pages, as they are often
randomly listing hotels).<br>
This is the motivation of this tag.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>one of the basic fundamental rules in OSM is that
data should be objective and not opinionated. We do not
want restaurant reviews (or any other personal review)
or a generalized way of saying "suitable for cyclists"
(you can of course map the factors that say why it is
suitable or not), and a "friendly:*" tag could be
misleading in this regard. I agree that there are facts
that can indicate a friendlyness or hostility towards a
certain group of people (e.g. motorcyclists, hikers,
hunters, cyclists, ...), like the signs, so I am not
absolutely against a tag like this, but the definition
should make it clear that it is about objective,
observable criteria.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p> </p>
<p>Didn't understand what you mean with "digest
approach" ?</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">You can subscribe to the mailing list
getting all the messages as soon as they are sent, or in a
digest way (many messages together in one email) after n
messages (I think it's 10 or 15) have been sent to the list.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Cheers,<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Martin<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Thilo Haug
Bismarckstr.37
72764 Reutlingen
Mobil: +49 177 3185856</pre>
<br>
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<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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