<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>My preference is to make the platform part of the route. A node tagged<br><br></div>public_transport=platform<br></div>railway=stop /highway=bus_stop (so they render on carto)<br></div>name=<br></div>ref=<br><br><br></div>This works particularly well for bus, tram, metro. It doesn't work all too well for trains, as they often arrive at different platforms, depending on the situation at the particular moment.<br><br></div>I like to consider the passenger perspective. I map the public_transport=stop_position node on the highway or railway from the perspective of the 'driver'. Those nodes don't need too much extra detail though. What I basically use them for is to split the way on them for the first and terminal stops of a line.<br><br></div>Would it be conceivable to come to a simplified way of mapping the route relations (at least for buses, trams and metro) to only include those public_transport=platform nodes?<br><br></div>I am converting many route relations from "public_transport:version=1" to "public_transport:version=2". And it's a hassle, but still feasible.<br><br></div>The point where I'll throw in the towel is if every stop needs to be in those route relations twice.<br><br></div>Some people add the stop_position nodes to the route relations and platform ways. Often duplicating all the details on both those stop_position nodes and the platform ways. From the passenger's perspective the stop_position nodes are not where they are waiting. Still those are the primitives that have coordinates that can easily be compared to data from the operators.<br><br></div>Having a node for the 'platform' (the pole with the flag on it in actuality) or at least the place where people gather to wait with all the details exactly once, solves many problems and makes checking and creating the route relations feasible.<br><br></div>Or maybe we need to define yet another public_transport=pole/waiting_area mappable only as a node for this purpose and include that in the route relations? When I asked a few years ago, I was told to use public_transport=platform for this purpose and this works well, as long as it is mapped as a node.<br><br></div>I'll be doing a workshop on public transport in Avignon the first Sunday of June.<br><br></div>Polyglot<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-05-12 20:12 GMT+02:00 Colin Smale <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:colin.smale@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">colin.smale@xs4all.nl</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p>How about a step back for a second here... What is the stop_position intended for? Who is it intended to help or inform? A bit of context would help to rank the possibilities.</p>
<p>I remain by my earlier standpoint that a stop_position is too much detail for a route as it is too variable to be useful. Trains on the same route will be longer or shorter, and will use different tracks and different platforms from time to time. What stays constant when considering the route is the station itself, so this would be the right entity to make part of the route.</p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p>--colin</p></font></span><div><div class="h5">
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<p>On 2017-05-12 17:45, Bjoern Hassler wrote:</p>
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<div>Hi Michael,</div>
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<div>that's very helpful, thanks. I'll implement the ref as well as the ordering. I'll also add this to the English wiki pages where needed. I'll have a look at the DE page as well.</div>
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<div>Examples for nodes as requested. Stop_position at:</div>
- End of platform (middle of line) node 13328915<br>
<div>- End of platform (end of line) node 20955753</div>
<div>- Middle of platform node 1620401529</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(Disclaimer: I was just adding tags for 13328915, but I'll fix this shortly to be in the center of the platform. IMHO that is the convention that does make sense from a passengers perspective, but yes, it doesn't address Colin's comments about physical stop train positions from the drivers perspective.)</div>
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<div>Many thanks,</div>
<div>Bjoern</div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 12 May 2017 at 15:48, Michael Reichert <span><<a href="mailto:nakaner@gmx.net" target="_blank">nakaner@gmx.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Bjoern,<br> <span><br> Am 2017-05-10 um 18:59 schrieb Bjoern Hassler:<br> > In an osm:relation:route<br> </span>> <<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/relation:route" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/wiki/relation:route</a>> (type=route,<br> <span>> route=train/...), you have both platforms and stop positions. How is a<br> > particular platform associated with a stop that serves it?<br> ><br> > E.g. for public transport routing, you'd walk (highway=footway) to a<br> > platform (public_transport=platform), at which point you'd change to a<br> > train stopping at a stop (public_transport=stop_positio<wbr>n). How would the<br> > routing algorithm know that the platform is associated with the stop?<br> ><br> > Is there an existing mechanism or convention, e.g. a tag on the platform<br> > that indicates the stop, or both tagged with the same name or similar?<br> <br> </span>Stop positions can have a tag ref=* or local_ref=* giving the track<br> number which is signed on the platform. The platform has ref=*, too. The<br> ref tag of the platform often contains multiple numbers because many<br> platforms have to edges, i.e. ref=2;3 or even worse: ref=2a;2b;2;3a;3b;3<br> (if the track can be occupied by two trains behind each other at the<br> same time – very common at busy stations).<br> <br> If you don't want to parse ref=*/local_ref=* and route relations are<br> properly mapped, you can check which route relations reference a<br> platform. If a route relation contains both platforms and stop<br> positions, the next member of a relation after a stop position node is<br> should be the platform.<br> <br> I think that both variants provide better results than simple snapping<br> on the next edge in your pedestrian routing graph (if platforms are in<br> your routing graph). There are cases in reality where a railway track<br> has platforms on both sides but you can or must leave the train only to<br> one direction.<br> <span><br> > PS I've noticed that sometimes the stop position is at the far end of a<br> > platform (i.e. the two stop positions are at opposite ends of the station).<br> > Maybe that's so that an association can be made?<br> <br> </span>From my point of view this is wrong mapping. (In Germany mainly done by<br> user rayquaza) To give a correct answer, you should give some examples<br> (node IDs).<br> <br> Best regards<br> <span class="m_456140687922677204HOEnZb"><span style="color:#888888"><br> Michael<br> <br> --<br> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten<br> ausgenommen)<br> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)<br> <br> <br> </span></span><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br> Tagging mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/tagging</a><br> </blockquote>
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