<div dir="ltr">As one who is indigenous to the United States, I don't see the problem with Lake Calhoun.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:34 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Tagging mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,<br>
Minnesota (Tom Hardy)<br>
2. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,<br>
Minnesota (Clifford Snow)<br>
3. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,<br>
Minnesota (Tom Hardy)<br>
4. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,<br>
Minnesota (Clifford Snow)<br>
5. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,<br>
Minnesota (Dave Swarthout)<br>
6. Re: Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in Minneapolis,<br>
Minnesota (Brad Neuhauser)<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:11:18 -0500<br>
From: Tom Hardy <<a href="mailto:rhardy702@gmail.com">rhardy702@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in<br>
Minneapolis, Minnesota<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:3221875.6S8bfXfhWU@sgt.decathlon.org">3221875.6S8bfXfhWU@sgt.<wbr>decathlon.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Lake Calhoun <<a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=44164741" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>?way=44164741</a>> is the subject of<br>
local discussion due to racist associations of the word "Calhoun". I know a<br>
name change has been promoted, but I have no further details.<br>
<br>
The name was recently changed to name=Bde Maka Ska, with name:dak=Mde Maka<br>
Ska, something that won't be recognised by most people or entities in the<br>
area.<br>
<br>
I added name:en=Lake Calhoun and added a note but have taken no further<br>
action.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Tom Hardy <<a href="mailto:rhardy702@gmail.com">rhardy702@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 16:23:50 -0700<br>
From: Clifford Snow <<a href="mailto:clifford@snowandsnow.us">clifford@snowandsnow.us</a>><br>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in<br>
Minneapolis, Minnesota<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CADAoPLq9uN5HRaEC1gLrEwq500679DV7oUuOqAgn%2BbZVEN9XDA@mail.gmail.com">CADAoPLq9uN5HRaEC1gLrEwq50067<wbr>9DV7oUuOqAgn+bZVEN9XDA@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Tom Hardy <<a href="mailto:rhardy702@gmail.com">rhardy702@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Lake Calhoun <<a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=44164741" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>?way=44164741</a>> is the subject<br>
> of<br>
> local discussion due to racist associations of the word "Calhoun". I know<br>
> a<br>
> name change has been promoted, but I have no further details.<br>
><br>
> The name was recently changed to name=Bde Maka Ska, with name:dak=Mde Maka<br>
> Ska, something that won't be recognised by most people or entities in the<br>
> area.<br>
><br>
> I added name:en=Lake Calhoun and added a note but have taken no further<br>
> action.<br>
><br>
<br>
According to Wikipedia [1], the city can not change the name. But since<br>
they did put up new signage, according to the article, I agree that<br>
name=Bde Maka Ska is appropriate. I would use the name_1=Lake Calhoun<br>
instead of name:en. Lake Calhoun isn't the english version of Bde Maka Ska.<br>
<br>
>From an article in the StarTribune [2] it looks like the park is still<br>
called East Lake Calhoun Park.<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Calhoun#Name" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Lake_Calhoun#Name</a><br>
[2]<br>
<a href="http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-park-board-to-vote-tonight-on-lake-calhoun-name-change/421157163/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.startribune.com/<wbr>minneapolis-park-board-to-<wbr>vote-tonight-on-lake-calhoun-<wbr>name-change/421157163/</a><br>
<br>
Clifford<br>
<br>
--<br>
@osm_seattle<br>
<a href="http://osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us</a><br>
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 18:50:01 -0500<br>
From: Tom Hardy <<a href="mailto:rhardy702@gmail.com">rhardy702@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in<br>
Minneapolis, Minnesota<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:27220167.8zj5PC1KOv@sgt.decathlon.org">27220167.8zj5PC1KOv@sgt.<wbr>decathlon.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On Thursday, 8 June 2017 18:23:50 CDT Clifford Snow wrote:<br>
<br>
> According to Wikipedia [1], the city can not change the name. But since<br>
> they did put up new signage, according to the article, I agree that<br>
> name=Bde Maka Ska is appropriate. I would use the name_1=Lake Calhoun<br>
> instead of name:en. Lake Calhoun isn't the english version of Bde Maka Ska.<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
Huh. That one flew right by me. Noted. Now I have to learn to pronounce it.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Tom Hardy <<a href="mailto:rhardy702@gmail.com">rhardy702@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 17:13:34 -0700<br>
From: Clifford Snow <<a href="mailto:clifford@snowandsnow.us">clifford@snowandsnow.us</a>><br>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in<br>
Minneapolis, Minnesota<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CADAoPLp4=<a href="mailto:j58if-8WLyoeFMxHnNMqp5sP0LwdE731Xm33Tr8ng@mail.gmail.com">j58if-<wbr>8WLyoeFMxHnNMqp5sP0LwdE731Xm33<wbr>Tr8ng@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hardy <<a href="mailto:rhardy702@gmail.com">rhardy702@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Huh. That one flew right by me. Noted. Now I have to learn to pronounce<br>
> it.<br>
<br>
<br>
Me too. Next time I'm in Minneapolis I don't want to see like a tourist and<br>
pronounce it incorrectly.<br>
<br>
FYI - We "renamed" our county because the original person was also a slave<br>
owner. Fortunately we went from being named after William R. King to Martin<br>
Luther King, Jr. So King County became King County. Much easier.<br>
<br>
--<br>
@osm_seattle<br>
<a href="http://osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us</a><br>
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch<br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:04:01 -0800<br>
From: Dave Swarthout <<a href="mailto:daveswarthout@gmail.com">daveswarthout@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in<br>
Minneapolis, Minnesota<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAKWFYhX5oeYJVwVB1eKTZcMqdecKDSWFvvpd7uPqcKqEzYMokg@mail.gmail.com">CAKWFYhX5oeYJVwVB1eKTZcMqdecK<wbr>DSWFvvpd7uPqcKqEzYMokg@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Names of things are changing ll the time. Here in Alaska, Barrow has been<br>
renamed to Utqiagvik, for example.<br>
<br>
However, I don't think you should use the name_1 tag. There has been<br>
endless discussion on this list about the uses of tags having numerical<br>
suffixes either with underscores or colons, and I believe that notation is<br>
out of favor now. Names like this one might better be tagged either as<br>
old_name=Lake Calhoun, or alt_name=Lake Calhoun. Using alt_name has, IIRC,<br>
the additional advantage of being searchable with Nominatum.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Clifford Snow <<a href="mailto:clifford@snowandsnow.us">clifford@snowandsnow.us</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hardy <<a href="mailto:rhardy702@gmail.com">rhardy702@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Huh. That one flew right by me. Noted. Now I have to learn to<br>
>> pronounce it.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Me too. Next time I'm in Minneapolis I don't want to see like a tourist<br>
> and pronounce it incorrectly.<br>
><br>
> FYI - We "renamed" our county because the original person was also a slave<br>
> owner. Fortunately we went from being named after William R. King to Martin<br>
> Luther King, Jr. So King County became King County. Much easier.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> @osm_seattle<br>
> <a href="http://osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us</a><br>
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Tagging mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Dave Swarthout<br>
Homer, Alaska<br>
Chiang Mai, Thailand<br>
Travel Blog at <a href="http://dswarthout.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://dswarthout.blogspot.com</a><br>
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Message: 6<br>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 21:34:07 -0500<br>
From: Brad Neuhauser <<a href="mailto:brad.neuhauser@gmail.com">brad.neuhauser@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Unofficial name change of "Lake Calhoun" in<br>
Minneapolis, Minnesota<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAJA6SWbO_=wW0=<wbr>4tLhPLdGXoOmDdO5kL7EjHbkK21Eqw<wbr>y9Bq=<a href="mailto:w@mail.gmail.com">w@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi I live in Minneapolis and am excited for this change. For Clifford and<br>
whoever else is interested, here's an article that has the Dakota<br>
pronunciation for Bde Maka Ska and some other area lakes:<br>
<a href="https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/14/bdemakaska-lake-calhoun" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.mprnews.org/story/<wbr>2015/10/14/bdemakaska-lake-<wbr>calhoun</a><br>
<br>
Locally there's been an increasing awareness of the indigenous land we are<br>
living on--for example see this map the city did with some of the<br>
indigenous place names within Minneapolis:<br>
<a href="https://streets.mn/2017/06/05/map-monday-dakota-and-ojibwe-place-names-in-minneapolis/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://streets.mn/2017/06/05/<wbr>map-monday-dakota-and-ojibwe-<wbr>place-names-in-minneapolis/</a><br>
As an OSM tie-in, I've been adding Dakota (name:dak) and Ojibwe (name:oj)<br>
names for some physical features in Minnesota.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Brad (aka neuhausr)<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 7:13 PM, Clifford Snow <<a href="mailto:clifford@snowandsnow.us">clifford@snowandsnow.us</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Tom Hardy <<a href="mailto:rhardy702@gmail.com">rhardy702@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Huh. That one flew right by me. Noted. Now I have to learn to<br>
>> pronounce it.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Me too. Next time I'm in Minneapolis I don't want to see like a tourist<br>
> and pronounce it incorrectly.<br>
><br>
> FYI - We "renamed" our county because the original person was also a slave<br>
> owner. Fortunately we went from being named after William R. King to Martin<br>
> Luther King, Jr. So King County became King County. Much easier.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> @osm_seattle<br>
> <a href="http://osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us</a><br>
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Tagging mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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End of Tagging Digest, Vol 93, Issue 12<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>