<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_2854" dir="ltr">We have plenty of examples of dispersed/scattered settlement patterns which have been mapped without having to worry about lack of tags: more or less the entire Celtic fringe of NW Europe (Brittany, Cornwall, Wales, Ireland, Scottish Highlands) shows this settlement pattern. The nucleated towns of Ireland & Wales being introduced by settlers (invaders?) such as Vikings or Anglo-Saxons. In addition many mining areas in Wales show a later dispersed settlement pattern. The medieval administrative units (parishes) which have often ended up as contemporary admin units often have little correspondence with the actual settlement pattern and thus defining boundaries for toponyms may be difficult.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3263" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3434" dir="ltr">The exception, of course, are townlands in Ireland.. These are ancient bounded land units which are the primary descriptive toponyms in much or rural Ireland. These are all mapped as place=locality, but with an additional attributive tag locality=townland. I would see this as a precedent, and one could envisage locality=dispersed_settlement.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3435" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3318" dir="ltr">However, looking at Wales and Brittany, I think the nature of dispersed settlement is to create a finer grain of toponymy. Many villages in Wales which these days appear nucleated have origins as rather dispersed places, a good example which I know well is <a class="edited-link-editor enhancr2_396cbc29-5b2f-5f79-cfb3-f6a6d1e9436f" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3579" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/53.2219/-4.2013">Llanfair PG</a> on Anglesey. Within living memory (mine) the parts of the settlement were known as Pentre Uchaf & Pentre Isaf (Upper & Lower), and I think it's likely that many local toponyms of this sort were not recorded by map makers. Elsewhere in Wales places where members of the family lived tend to be referred to either by the name of the village/parish or by the name of the farm/house. For the most part the latter are not true toponyms in Britain.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_4045" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_4046" dir="ltr">In Brittany there are even signposts showing how to find all the localities of a commune in the chef-lieu (I have photos of some with perhaps 60 or so place names). These days many can be suitably tagged with place=hamlet, place=locality or possibly place=isolated_dwelling. Once again changes in the past 40 years or so obscure some of the more obvious features of these places (i.e., places which had a few farmsteads and no mains water or sanitation in the 1970s are now lived in by commuters).</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_4047" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_4048" dir="ltr">In summary: we have an excellent source of mapped dispersed settlements in Europe; absence of any specific tags for such places has only slightly impeded mapping (although perhaps a rigorous insistence on locality having no population may make it harder); there are reasonable precedents (townlands.ie) for using a locality tag to add further information; and, lastly, the relationship between zoonyms, admin boundaries and settlements is likely to be complex in such places requiring good local & historical knowledge.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_4266" dir="ltr">Jerry</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3721"><br></div><div class="yahoo-link-enhancr-card ymail-preserve-class ymail-preserve-style" id="enhancr2_396cbc29-5b2f-5f79-cfb3-f6a6d1e9436f" style="max-width:400px;font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" dir="ltr" contenteditable="false" data-type="yenhancr" data-size="medium" data-embed-url="" data-category="website" data-url="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/53.2219/-4.2013"> <a class="yahoo-enhancr-cardlink" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_4138" style="text-decoration:none !important; 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line-height:19px; margin:0 0 4px 0;font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;word-break:break-word;">OpenStreetMap</h2> <div class="card-description" style="font-size:11px;line-height:15px;color:#999;word-break:break-word;">OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.</div> </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding:16px 12px 16px 0;"> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </a></div><div><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3264" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3317" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_2828">.<br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_2853" style="display: block;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_2852" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_2851" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_2850" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3004" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3003"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" <tagging@openstreetmap.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, 16 June 2017, 11:25<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Tagging] dispersed settlements / scattered settlements<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3437"><br><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497619022961_3438" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">sent from a phone<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> On 16. Jun 2017, at 11:45, Warin <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> A minimum of 10 residential dwellings<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">I'd set the minimum as 2-3 (above isolated dwelling)<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">> each separated from the others by at least 500 meters, with a maximum overall area of 5 square kilometres<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">for me they don't have to be _each_ separated and there mustn't be a minimum distance, it's sufficient that they don't form a nucleus. I'd also not limit this by any maximum area, the criterion is that there is a name for the ensemble.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">cheers,<div class="yqt6540644726" id="yqtfd97259"><br clear="none">Martin <br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Tagging mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" shape="rect">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br clear="none"></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>