<html><head></head><body>Is access by permit not permissive access?<br>
<br>
access=permissive, permissive=permit maybe.<br>
<br>
Fishing rights are very different to access and need to be treated as a separate issue.<br>
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Phil (trigpoint) <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 September 2017 13:20:41 BST, Dave Swarthout <daveswarthout@gmail.com> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr"><div>><span style="font-size:16px">There are different difficulties of gaining a 'permit'. Some have a numerical limit, some a schedule, some are simply a paperwork exercise.</span><span style="font-size:16px"> </span></div><span style="font-size:16px">>There are numerical limits on popular walking tracks to stop overuse (e.g. Milford Track New Zealand, Overland Track Australia). </span><br style="font-size:16px" /><span style="font-size:16px">>A fair proportion of South Australia has a scheduled permit system so that you are not on the rocket firing range when it is in that use. </span><br style="font-size:16px" /><br style="font-size:16px" /><span style="font-size:16px">>They all tend towards access=private. </span><br style="font-size:16px" /><div><br /></div>@Warin - I respectfully disagree. I would say they all tend toward acess=public. I guess it all depends on your point of view. In my particular case, that of a U.S. miltary base, one could argue the issue of who actually "owns" the base ad infinitum. The fact is, unless Trump throws an ethnic card into the mix, the public at large can use those fishing ponds. There is no other requirement other than that of having a permit.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br /><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Warin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_8748366792336043974moz-cite-prefix">On 18-Sep-17 04:47 PM, Graeme
Fitzpatrick wrote:<br />
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<div>On 18 September 2017 at 14:55, Kevin Kenny <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kevin.b.kenny+osm@gmail.com" target="_blank">kevin.b.kenny+osm@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br />
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<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="m_8748366792336043974gmail-">On Mon,
Sep 18, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Dave Swarthout <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:daveswarthout@gmail.com" target="_blank">daveswarthout@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I'm trying to tag some
stocked fishing ponds that reside on a
military reservation in Alaska, Fort Greely.
The ponds are stocked by the Alaska Department
of Fish & Game but require a special
permit for access. This is from the Department
of Fish & Game website:
<div><br />
</div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(255,51,0);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:bold">These
lakes are on military land. A permit is
required to legally access these lakes.
For Army land a Recreational Access Permit
(RAP) is required.</span><br clear="all" />
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<div>access=permissive isn't quite right nor
is access=private.</div>
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<div><br />
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<div>For me, and apparently for you, there's a big
difference between 'this land is private', and
'access to this land requires certain formalities
to be complied with, but permission is ordinarily
granted.' But i appear to be imagining that the
difference is important, since nobody else on the
planet sees it.</div>
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</div>
<div>You can count me in there as well, 'cause I've got a
similar'ish sort of question, thanks gents :-)</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>Just off the Queensland coast, there are a number of
large, sand islands, which are reached by ferry (in one
case, by bridge) & are very popular tourist
destinations. eg Fraser Island: <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/-25.322/152.732" target="_blank">http://www.<wbr />openstreetmap.org/#map=8/-25.<wbr />322/152.732</a></div>
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<div>These islands are controlled by Qld National Parks
& anybody is allowed to visit them, but to drive on
the island, either on the beach or inland tracks, you must
have a vehicle permit, which can be simply bought either
online, or from various retailers - newsagents, service
stations etc. The main beaches on each of these islands
are also the main roads to travel around the island, &
are, in fact, designated public roads, where normal speed
limits, licensing requirements, alcohol limits etc all
apply, & are enforced by Police.</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>So how should they be marked?</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>They're open to the general public until National Parks
says no, so that's permissive?</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>But you need a permit, so does that make them private?</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>Maybe they should be marked as toll=yes, although
there's no toll-booth where you can pay?<br />
</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>& then how do you mark the entire Island, or just
the main beach, as needing a permit? Marked tracks can be
tagged easily enough, but the beach is just a beach!</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>Looking forward to working something out! :-)</div>
<div><br />
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<br /></span>
The Kokoda Trail, New Guinea has similar requirements - for walkers.
A permit with a fee ... the fact that some road/path has no tool
booth does not mean a toll/fee is not charged. <br />
Arr yes .. the Simpson Desert, Australia has a similar permit thing
.. for vehicles. <br />
<br />
Where a toll/fee is charged then which tag to use fee=* or toll=*
??? This should be separate from the access consideration. I would
think both are the same thing and should be combined at some stage.
<br />
<br />
There are different difficulties of gaining a 'permit'. Some have a
numerical limit, some a schedule, some are simply a paperwork
exercise. <br />
There are numerical limits on popular walking tracks to stop overuse
(e.g. Milford Track New Zealand, Overland Track Australia). <br />
A fair proportion of South Australia has a scheduled permit system
so that you are not on the rocket firing range when it is in that
use. <br />
<br />
They all tend towards access=private. <br />
<br />
</div>
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<br /></blockquote></div><br /><br clear="all" /><div><br /></div>-- <br /><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Dave Swarthout<br />Homer, Alaska<br />Chiang Mai, Thailand<br />Travel Blog at <a href="http://dswarthout.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://dswarthout.blogspot.com</a></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br>
-- <br>
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