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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18-Sep-17 04:47 PM, Graeme
Fitzpatrick wrote:<br>
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<div>On 18 September 2017 at 14:55, Kevin Kenny <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:kevin.b.kenny+osm@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">kevin.b.kenny+osm@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-">On Mon,
Sep 18, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Dave Swarthout <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:daveswarthout@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">daveswarthout@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I'm trying to tag some
stocked fishing ponds that reside on a
military reservation in Alaska, Fort Greely.
The ponds are stocked by the Alaska Department
of Fish & Game but require a special
permit for access. This is from the Department
of Fish & Game website:
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<div><span
style="color:rgb(255,51,0);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:bold">These
lakes are on military land. A permit is
required to legally access these lakes.
For Army land a Recreational Access Permit
(RAP) is required.</span><br clear="all">
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<div>access=permissive isn't quite right nor
is access=private.</div>
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<div>For me, and apparently for you, there's a big
difference between 'this land is private', and
'access to this land requires certain formalities
to be complied with, but permission is ordinarily
granted.' But i appear to be imagining that the
difference is important, since nobody else on the
planet sees it.</div>
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<div>You can count me in there as well, 'cause I've got a
similar'ish sort of question, thanks gents :-)</div>
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<div>Just off the Queensland coast, there are a number of
large, sand islands, which are reached by ferry (in one
case, by bridge) & are very popular tourist
destinations. eg Fraser Island: <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/-25.322/152.732"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/-25.322/152.732</a></div>
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<div>These islands are controlled by Qld National Parks
& anybody is allowed to visit them, but to drive on
the island, either on the beach or inland tracks, you must
have a vehicle permit, which can be simply bought either
online, or from various retailers - newsagents, service
stations etc. The main beaches on each of these islands
are also the main roads to travel around the island, &
are, in fact, designated public roads, where normal speed
limits, licensing requirements, alcohol limits etc all
apply, & are enforced by Police.</div>
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<div>So how should they be marked?</div>
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<div>They're open to the general public until National Parks
says no, so that's permissive?</div>
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<div>But you need a permit, so does that make them private?</div>
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<div>Maybe they should be marked as toll=yes, although
there's no toll-booth where you can pay?<br>
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<div>& then how do you mark the entire Island, or just
the main beach, as needing a permit? Marked tracks can be
tagged easily enough, but the beach is just a beach!</div>
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<div>Looking forward to working something out! :-)</div>
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<br>
The Kokoda Trail, New Guinea has similar requirements - for walkers.
A permit with a fee ... the fact that some road/path has no tool
booth does not mean a toll/fee is not charged. <br>
Arr yes .. the Simpson Desert, Australia has a similar permit thing
.. for vehicles. <br>
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Where a toll/fee is charged then which tag to use fee=* or toll=*
??? This should be separate from the access consideration. I would
think both are the same thing and should be combined at some stage.
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There are different difficulties of gaining a 'permit'. Some have a
numerical limit, some a schedule, some are simply a paperwork
exercise. <br>
There are numerical limits on popular walking tracks to stop overuse
(e.g. Milford Track New Zealand, Overland Track Australia). <br>
A fair proportion of South Australia has a scheduled permit system
so that you are not on the rocket firing range when it is in that
use. <br>
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They all tend towards access=private. <br>
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