<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div><span></span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9410">Aren't the legal arguments insuperable?</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9393"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9391">Even if logos are held in Wikimedia commons I very much doubt that the licence on Wikimedia commons is accurate. Most large companies will defend the use of their brand image fiercely. </div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9412"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9480">In practice to use logos and other trademarks on a map one should get explicit permission from the owner of the logo. Yes it is done, for instance in shopping mall maps, but this will usually be covered by associated legal agreements.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9539"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9740" dir="ltr">An excellent example is the Transport for London roundel. This image says it is ""<i>It </i><b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9599"><i>does not meet the </i><a title="Commons:Threshold of originality" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9601" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Threshold_of_originality" title-off=""><font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9602" color="#0066cc"><i id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9699">threshold of originality</i></font></a></b><i id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9697"> needed ",</i> but below it notes that it may be a trademark in some jurisdictions. TfL on the other hand have very clear guidelines: <a class="enhancr2_b0caf3bc-bb1d-1dfe-e0dc-c069859409ef" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9728" href="https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/suppliers-and-contractors/logo-requests">Logo requests</a></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10079" dir="ltr">and are known to be <a class="edited-link-editor enhancr2_3b1fe5b6-d05f-1dc5-e18e-491bd2ff22cb" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10023" href="https://occupylondon.org.uk/occupy-london-crowdsources-new-logo/">litigious</a>.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10086" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr">I would therefore suggest adding explicit links to potentially copyright/trade-mark infringing material is not a good idea for OSM. Wikipedia may be large enough and have a good enough mind share for large companies to tolerate the presence of logos in the commons. It is not clear that this is the case for OSM: particularly as the most obvious use-case for logos is in maps of public transport networks.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10380" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr">So, although I sympathise with the idea, I'm very dubious about promoting it within OSM.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10382" dir="ltr">Jerry<br><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10030"><br></div><div class="yahoo-link-enhancr-card ymail-preserve-class ymail-preserve-style" id="enhancr2_3b1fe5b6-d05f-1dc5-e18e-491bd2ff22cb" style="max-width:400px;font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" dir="ltr" contenteditable="false" data-url="https://occupylondon.org.uk/occupy-london-crowdsources-new-logo/" data-size="medium" data-type="yenhancr" data-category="article" data-embed-url=""> <a class="yahoo-enhancr-cardlink" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10397" style="text-decoration:none !important; color: #000 !important;" href="https://occupylondon.org.uk/occupy-london-crowdsources-new-logo/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"> <table class="card-wrapper yahoo-ignore-table" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10396" style="max-width:400px;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tbody id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10395"><tr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10394"> <td width="400" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10393"> <table width="100%" class="card yahoo-ignore-table" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10392" style="max-width:400px;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tbody id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10391"><tr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10390"> <td class="card-primary-image-cell" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10389" background="https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/67kuizqynPszo_tkQdr1zA--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MjAwO3c9NDAw/https://occupylondon.org.uk/wp-content/themes/DynamiX/lib/scripts/timthumb.php?h=134&w=210&zc=0&src=wp-content/uploads/2012/06/bambuser-image1.jpg.cf.jpg" valign="top" style="background:#000 url('https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/67kuizqynPszo_tkQdr1zA--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MjAwO3c9NDAw/https://occupylondon.org.uk/wp-content/themes/DynamiX/lib/scripts/timthumb.php?h=134&w=210&zc=0&src=wp-content/uploads/2012/06/bambuser-image1.jpg.cf.jpg') no-repeat center center;background-size:cover;height:200px;position:relative;" bgcolor="#000000"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:400px;height:218px;position:absolute;top:0;left:0;"><v:fill type="frame" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/67kuizqynPszo_tkQdr1zA--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MjAwO3c9NDAw/https://occupylondon.org.uk/wp-content/themes/DynamiX/lib/scripts/timthumb.php?h=134&w=210&zc=0&src=wp-content/uploads/2012/06/bambuser-image1.jpg.cf.jpg"/></v:rect><![endif]--> <table class="yahoo-ignore-table" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10388" style="width:100%;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" valign="top"> <tbody id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10387"><tr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10386"> <td id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10385" background="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png" valign="top" style="background:transparent url('https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png') repeat left top;height:200px;" bgcolor="transparent"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:400px;height:218px;position:absolute;top:-18px;left:0;"><v:fill type="pattern" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png"/><v:textbox inset="0,0,20px,0"><![endif]--> <table height="185" class="yahoo-ignore-table" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10384" style="width:100%;height:185px;min-height:185px;"> <tbody><tr> <td class="card-richInfo2" style="text-align:left;text-align:left;padding:15px 0 0 15px;vertical-align:top;"> </td> <td class="card-actions" style="text-align:right;padding:15px 15px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"> <div class="card-share-container"></div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!--[if gte mso 9]></v:textbox></v:rect><![endif]--> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <table align="center" class="card-info yahoo-ignore-table" style="background:#fff;position:relative;z-index:2;width:95%;max-width:380px;border:1px solid #e0e4e9;border-bottom:3px solid #000000;margin-top:-40px;margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px 0 16px 12px;vertical-align:top;"> </td> <td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:16px 12px;width:99%;"> <h2 class="card-title" style="font-size: 16px; line-height:19px; margin:0 0 4px 0;font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;word-break:break-word;">Occupy London crowdsources new logo</h2> <div class="card-description" style="font-size:11px;line-height:15px;color:#999;word-break:break-word;"></div> </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding:16px 12px 16px 0;"> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="yahoo-link-enhancr-card ymail-preserve-class ymail-preserve-style" id="enhancr2_b0caf3bc-bb1d-1dfe-e0dc-c069859409ef" style="max-width:400px;font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" dir="ltr" contenteditable="false" data-url="https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/suppliers-and-contractors/logo-requests" data-size="medium" data-type="yenhancr" data-category="article" data-embed-url=""> <a class="yahoo-enhancr-cardlink" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10004" style="text-decoration:none !important; color: #000 !important;" href="https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/suppliers-and-contractors/logo-requests" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"> <table class="card-wrapper yahoo-ignore-table" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10003" style="max-width:400px;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tbody id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10002"><tr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10001"> <td width="400" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_10000"> <table width="100%" class="card yahoo-ignore-table" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9999" style="max-width:400px;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tbody id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9998"><tr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9997"> <td class="card-primary-image-cell" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9996" background="https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/DTjtdShjpCb1AWtuFlQEeg--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MjAwO3c9NDAw/https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/images/MoL-small.png.cf.jpg" valign="top" style="background:#000 url('https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/DTjtdShjpCb1AWtuFlQEeg--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MjAwO3c9NDAw/https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/images/MoL-small.png.cf.jpg') no-repeat center center;background-size:cover;height:200px;position:relative;" bgcolor="#000000"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:400px;height:218px;position:absolute;top:0;left:0;"><v:fill type="frame" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/DTjtdShjpCb1AWtuFlQEeg--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MjAwO3c9NDAw/https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/images/MoL-small.png.cf.jpg"/></v:rect><![endif]--> <table class="yahoo-ignore-table" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9995" style="width:100%;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" valign="top"> <tbody id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9994"><tr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9993"> <td id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9992" background="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png" valign="top" style="background:transparent url('https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png') repeat left top;height:200px;" bgcolor="transparent"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:400px;height:218px;position:absolute;top:-18px;left:0;"><v:fill type="pattern" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png"/><v:textbox inset="0,0,20px,0"><![endif]--> <table height="185" class="yahoo-ignore-table" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9991" style="width:100%;height:185px;min-height:185px;"> <tbody id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9990"><tr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9989"> <td class="card-richInfo2" style="text-align:left;text-align:left;padding:15px 0 0 15px;vertical-align:top;"> </td> <td class="card-actions" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9988" style="text-align:right;padding:15px 15px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"> <div class="card-share-container"></div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!--[if gte mso 9]></v:textbox></v:rect><![endif]--> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <table align="center" class="card-info yahoo-ignore-table" style="background:#fff;position:relative;z-index:2;width:95%;max-width:380px;border:1px solid #e0e4e9;border-bottom:3px solid #000000;margin-top:-40px;margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px 0 16px 12px;vertical-align:top;"> </td> <td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:16px 12px;width:99%;"> <h2 class="card-title" style="font-size: 16px; line-height:19px; margin:0 0 4px 0;font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;word-break:break-word;">Logo requests</h2> <div class="card-richinfo-primary" style="font-size:11px;line-height:15px;color:#999;">By Transport for London | Every Journey Matters</div> <div class="card-description" style="font-size:11px;line-height:15px;color:#999;word-break:break-word;">Restrictions on using the TfL roundels.</div> </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding:16px 12px 16px 0;"> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </a></div><div><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9078" style="display: block;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9077" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9076" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9075" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9276" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9275"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Philip Barnes <phil@trigpoint.me.uk><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> tagging@openstreetmap.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 19 September 2017, 13:18<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Tagging] Proposal: logo tag. Opinions?<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9223"><br><div id="yiv0939318845"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9222">Ignoring the legal arguments for a moment, but what would OSM gain or do with this information. How would it help us build a better map?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Phil (trigpoint) <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0939318845yqt2122784490" id="yiv0939318845yqtfd92682"><div class="yiv0939318845gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9221">On 19 September 2017 08:10:15 BST, SwiftFast <swiftfast@gmx.com> wrote:<blockquote class="yiv0939318845gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9220" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;">
<pre class="yiv0939318845k9mail" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506082492116_9219">The logo tag would link to a Logo of a company/organization/shop.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">To avoid unreliable links, questionable licenses, and the rest of the<br clear="none">drawbacks of the "image"[1] tag, the value must link to a Wikimedia<br clear="none">Commons image. The value format is identical to the<br clear="none">wikimedia_commons[2] format.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">[1] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:image" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:image</a><br clear="none">[2] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikimedia_commons" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikimedia_commons</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></pre><hr><br clear="none">Tagging mailing list<br clear="none">Tagging@openstreetmap.org<br clear="none"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br clear="none"></blockquote></div></div><br clear="none">
-- <br clear="none">
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</div></div><div class="yqt2122784490" id="yqtfd76302">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Tagging mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" shape="rect">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>