<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39242">Can I contribute to this debate?</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39244"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39246" dir="ltr">AFAIK I invented memorial=war_memorial for the Project of the Week which coincided with 11th November 2010. I agonised a certain amount about the best tag (both because of issues mentioned here, and because it would apply to both historic=monument and historic=memorial). However, at the time there were next to no uses of the tag memorial. I did try and discuss this on IRC channels (eg with the Italian community) </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39472" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39474" dir="ltr">As it stands this represents around a third of instances of the key, and I believe pre-dates other classes of meanings for memorial (see <a href="http://taghistory.raifer.tech/">http://taghistory.raifer.tech/</a> and type some typical values in). </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39785" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39783" dir="ltr">The original description page for the PotW makes it clear that the tag was intended for many different types of memorial (See <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Project_of_the_week/2010/Nov_10">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Project_of_the_week/2010/Nov_10)</a>:</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39781" dir="ltr"><br></div><ul id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39648" dir="ltr"><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39647"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39568">Walls</div></li><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39701"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39700" dir="ltr">Gates (the Menin Gate)</div></li><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39704"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39703" dir="ltr">Ossuaries (common in Italy)</div></li><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39707"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39706" dir="ltr">Monuments (Vimy Ridge)</div></li><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39716"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39715" dir="ltr">Simple village memorials</div></li><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39719"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39718" dir="ltr">Public facilities (community halls, bridges etc)</div></li><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39722"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39721" dir="ltr">Places dedicated as a war memorial: 2 large areas in the centre of the English Lake District including the highest peak in England</div></li><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39778"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39777" dir="ltr">Arboreta</div></li></ul><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39937" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43355" dir="ltr">I am personally not very keen on deprecating tags which represent such a significant fraction of the total usage of a key, as it is in effect changing the meaning of the key in the database (as opposed to its description in the wiki). However I share the sense of awkwardness with the dual meanings implicit in the use of the key. In general such tags have been disambiguated by adding colons. I'm not at all sure about memorial:theme (a proper tabulation of likely values is needed), but memorial:form (or something similar for plaque, wall etc) is easier. Note that in many cases the object will not need the form to be described if it is a building, man made structure etc). </div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43357" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_40235" dir="ltr">My personal suggestions are:</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_40250" dir="ltr"><br></div><ul id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43361" dir="ltr"><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43360"><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43359" dir="ltr">memorial:commemorates with values of person; event; war (or conflict); building ...</div></li><li id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43535"><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43534" dir="ltr">just a simple war_memorial=yes (which perhaps fits better with the wide range of object which could be tagged).</div></li></ul><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43543" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_43959" dir="ltr">As for arboreta, I have been wondering for some time about a garden tag for describing all the different features of large gardens, and arboreta are common features. The idea needs work, but would include arboretum, alpine, herbaceous, systematic & perennial beds, various kinds of glass houses, wild flower gardens, species collections etc.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_44005" dir="ltr">Jerry<br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> </div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39153" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39152" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39163" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39165" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39167"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Warin <61sundowner@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> tagging@openstreetmap.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, 5 October 2017, 5:27<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Tagging] war_memorial<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39151"><br><div id="yiv8125553058"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39150">
<div class="yiv8125553058moz-cite-prefix" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39160">On 05-Oct-17 01:58 PM, Graeme
Fitzpatrick wrote:<br clear="none">
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<blockquote id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39158" type="cite">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39157" dir="ltr">Thanks everyone for your thoughts re arboretums
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39156"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506802512909_39583">Why I brought this up - had a look at the historic=monument
tag yesterday morning, which lead me to <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CheckTheMonuments</a>
& <a href="http://www.historic.place/themes/monuments/map.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.historic.place/themes/monuments/map.html</a>.</div>
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<div>That showed 4 monuments in my general area, 2 of which
should apparently be memorials, 1 I'm not sure about &
this one: <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-28.00759/153.38376" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-28.00759/153.38376</a>.</div>
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<div>The "Regional Arboretum" is shown as a monument &, by
the conversations here, almost certainly shouldn't be (maybe
it should be a Memorial? - will have to get up there &
check it out on the ground); while the "ADF Grove" is, almost
certainly correctly, a Memorial.</div>
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<div>Now, if the Regional Arboretum isn't actually marked as
being a memorial to anybody / thing, & therefore not a
memorial, how should it then appear in OSM? The Botanic
Gardens as a whole are shown as landuse=recreation_ground;
leisure=park. From a Google satellite shot <a href="https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-28.0070891,153.3834806,174m/data=%213m1%211e3?hl=en" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-28.0070891,153.3834806,174m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en</a>,
the Regional Arboretum is only an open group of trees, so how
should it be mapped?</div>
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</div>
<div>It's definitely not intended for forestry / logging
purposes, so it's not landuse=forest</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>It's hardly a forest, so not natural=wood</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Doesn't produce anything so not landuse=orchard</div>
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<div>Leisure=garden? Garden brings to mind flowers & bushes,
not trees, but I guess it may still apply?</div>
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</blockquote>
<br clear="none">
Sydney Royal Botanic Garden is tagged as<br clear="none">
leisure=garden<br clear="none">
garden:type=botanical<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Possibly <br clear="none">
leisure=garden<br clear="none">
garden:type=arboretum?? <br clear="none">
I think this is the best solution I have - not documented and no
actual existence in the data base. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Way 21370319 (Nottingham Arboretum) is tagged as<br clear="none">
name=Arboretum<div class="yiv8125553058yqt1013334491" id="yiv8125553058yqtfd13454"><br clear="none">
leisure=park</div><br clear="none">
this looks wrong to me .. the name may just be a description. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The Australian Canberra arboretum is tagged as<br clear="none">
tourist=attraction <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
A quick look has arboretums tagged as <br clear="none">
forest (!), conservation, grass (!), leisure=nature_reserve and
probably other things. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Will be interesting to see where this goes.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
----------------------------<br clear="none">
I have mapped some 'local' memorials/monuments ... <br clear="none">
including one to a cat (Trim - Matthew Flinders cat), one to the WW1
Australian horses. <div class="yiv8125553058yqt1013334491" id="yiv8125553058yqtfd22828"><br clear="none">
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<h2><br clear="none">
</h2>
</div></div></div><div class="yqt1013334491" id="yqtfd26360">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Tagging mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" shape="rect">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div><div class="yahoo_quoted"> </div></div></body></html>