<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#333333" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Apologies for joining the discussion slightly late, I was offline
yesterday.
<div class="moz-forward-container">
<p>For transparency, I shall first state that my company
Carto'Cité has a contract with SNCF to "look after" 380 railway
stations in the Greater Paris area. This is how I detected
Ilya's changeset (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53267689"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53267689</a>)
and started a discussion with him. We've also mapped the main
Paris railway stations to great details, the result of which can
be seen using tools such as <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://openlevelup.net/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://openlevelup.net/</a>
and <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://openstationmap.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://openstationmap.org/</a>.</p>
<p>There are a few points in this discussion I'd like to come back
to.<br>
</p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">The argument that
only a few stations have been mapped with polygons is wrong.
The OSM practice is to start simple and rough then iterate to
improve the data and accuracy. </font><font face="Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">The
fact that only a few people have done it so far is not an
argument either : probably only a few people started mapping
the electrical network and this is now a valuable asset. Or
we decide collectively that there is a threshold of
complexity that we do not want to cross.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I don't see why
subway stations should be mapped differently to other
overground stations. Both are part of the public transport
model which should handle all situations (and evolve if
needed). Mapping underground areas is indeed harder, but not
impossible. The indoor model can be combined with the public
transport model and we proved it works. <br>
</font></p>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I agree that these
massive
stop_area relations are not elegant. These have indeed been
used to make it easier to extract the data related to a station.
However in complex cases I cannot see an alternative, maybe
using site relations with a sensible use of perimeter members is
the way to go. Having said that, removing bike sharing
facilities, taxi and other useful stuff from stop_area relations
is a strange decision - and by the way this seems to have been
done to make it easier for another tool to use the data. Let's
not start an editing war...</font><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"><br>
<br>
A lot of intensive work has been done to map railway stations
with the indoor scheme, and large sections of them are located
underground. This is for instance the case in France where SNCF
has put some effort and money in doing so, and also Deusche Bahn
in Germany. </font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I was indeed rather
surprised that Ilya went ahead with changing the data based on
his proposal before it got voted. I am glad this discussion
goes public.</font></font>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Cheers,<br>
Antoine.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></p>
</div>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
<tr>
<td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 18px;"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" /></a></td>
<td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 17px; color: #41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Garanti sans virus. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"> </a></div></body>
</html>