<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
span.ind
{mso-style-name:ind;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:850948323;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:61233174 68419585 68419587 68419589 68419585 68419587 68419589 68419585 68419587 68419589;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" lang="NO-BOK" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I would like to raise a few flags for sports_centres, pitches, and stadiums (in rare cases also arena). I’ve been cleaning
up a lot of these in the past months so I’ll just namedrop some problems I’ve seen a lot of (in Norway).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Due to language barriers, lack of tagging knowledge and the varying design of these sports areas people will often tag
them wrong. You also have to evaluate the specific meaning versus the layout and usage of a location and if there is no direct match you just have to pick the closest thing.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Stuff I found:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Sports halls in schools with all kinds of tagging, problems aggravated if it also for example contains swimming
facilities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’ve seen a node by a lake tagged sports_centre + swimming because you can swim in the lake there.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Individual events in a longer course mapped as sports_centre (<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2329751424">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2329751424</a>).
There are about 20 of them heading north along trails.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">People often tag fitness_centres as sports_centre. Also the Yoga-centres as stated already. I guess the “dojo”-tagging
also belongs here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Sometimes a single pitch is tagged as stadium – usually because they are sometimes named “Something Stadion”
even though it’s just a simple soccer pitch.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">When there is a cluster of for example 3 pitches, some people tag the area as sports_centre - some as stadium.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Weird combinations such as a building/company with gokart and bowling can be difficult to know how to tag.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Team building locations that are kind of sporty, but not really a sport. How else to tag them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Alpine skiing facilities are often mapped as area with sports_centre and sometimes as single node. I see there
is a landuse=winter_sports but it doesn’t even have 1000 usages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We also have an old Olympic village up in Lillehammer which offers some challenges: (<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/275004406#map=17/61.22061/10.41947">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/275004406#map=17/61.22061/10.41947</a>)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I have no good suggestions for how to make the tagging schemes better. Just saying that this goes way beyond school sports
halls and pitches. Some features simply fall between the tag-cracks or confuse people. It would be hard fitting all these sports into sports_centre:
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports</a> (not to mention things like chess and eSports).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"></addingToDiscussionAndVentingRage> ;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">/Johan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Warin [mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> onsdag 7. februar 2018 02.34<br>
<b>To:</b> tagging@openstreetmap.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] How to tag sports halls?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 07-Feb-18 11:51 AM, Paul Allen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Warin <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
I think of table tennis as a sport, so see no reason why the playing area for table tennis should not be tagged as a pitch in OSM.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In British English, "pitch" has a specific meaning with respect to sport. The equivalent in US and Canadian English<br>
is "playing field" or "sports field." It is grass or artificial grass for running around, and being tackled to the ground.<br>
Grass or artificial grass to prevent injuries when being tackled to the ground. Grass or artificial grass to prevent the<br>
surface being churned to mud on rainy days.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It makes no sense whatsoever, in British English, to talk of a table tennis pitch any more than it would be to talk of a<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">table-tennis field. There's a reason it's called "table tennis" not "pitch tennis" or "field tennis." Pitches are large<br>
enough for 22 men to run around on (smaller versions for kiddies) kicking or throwing or hitting a ball.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Dictionary time - pitch... <br>
Oxford - <span class="ind">An area of ground marked out or used for play in an outdoor team game.
</span><br>
<br>
<span class="ind">No mention of surface or size. As there is 5 a side soccer .. </span>
<br>
<span class="ind">The present game of tennis is played on a much smaller are then traditional 11 a side soccer.
</span><br>
<span class="ind">And it can be played on clay. </span><br>
<span class="ind">Shuttle cock?</span><br>
<span class="ind">Volley ball?</span><br>
<br>
<span class="ind">Archery ... according to the wiki uses pitch ... as does shooting ...
</span><br>
<span class="ind">If table tennis is excluded then so should these. And possibly more.
</span><br>
<span class="ind">How pedantic should OSM be? Just pointing out the inconsistencies.
</span><br>
<br>
<span class="ind">sport</span><br>
<br>
<span class="ind">Oxford - An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Chess? Not certain if that can be classified as a 'sport' ... certainly a game of skill. Should there be another OSM key for games of skill?
<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whatever you classify chess as, it's played on a board, not a pitch or a field. Maybe if you play with human pieces (a<br>
novelty game) you might play it on marked grass but it would still be referred to as a board, not a pitch.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span class="ind">Chess has little physical exertion. So would not meet the strict definition of a 'sport'.
</span><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Looking through th eOSM list of sports ... Yoga? As a sport<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I tried yoga once. It tasted like sour milk to me.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span class="ind">More Dictionary time - yoga .. </span><br>
<span class="ind">Oxford - A Hindu spiritual and ascetic discipline, a part of which, including breath control, simple meditation, and the adoption of specific bodily postures, is widely practised for health and relaxation.</span><br>
<br>
I don't see any completion here. Yet OSM has it as a 'sport'. <br>
<br>
Summary<br>
Best fit.. round peg .. square hole. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>