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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don.27t_map_your_local_legislation.2C_if_not_bound_to_objects_in_reality<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 5 April 2018 23:38<br><b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] no_u_turn restrictions for every entry/exit into a roundabout when the way is split because of physical separation?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I don't think that's particularly harmful. I'm not against extending the criteria to published laws, particularly when those laws are documented in an official source.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Apr 4, 2018, 23:10 <<a href="mailto:osm.tagging@thorsten.engler.id.au">osm.tagging@thorsten.engler.id.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Actually, it’s not just relatively harmless “noise”. Because such no_u_turn restrictions are indistinguishable from e.g. this one: <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8182004" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8182004</a> (which I just created), that actually has a sign “on the ground”: <a href="https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-27.2141567,153.0014115,3a,75y,100.42h,82.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-vnw60jwbq7XyR_-zZfreg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656" target="_blank">https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-27.2141567,153.0014115,3a,75y,100.42h,82.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-vnw60jwbq7XyR_-zZfreg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656</a> (excuse the streetview link, don’t have another photo of it right now, but I’m driving past it almost every day and am well aware of it).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Tod Fitch <<a href="mailto:tod@fitchdesign.com" target="_blank">tod@fitchdesign.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 5 April 2018 09:50<br><b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] no_u_turn restrictions for every entry/exit into a roundabout when the way is split because of physical separation?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Seems like tagging “noise” to me. I’d expect a router to use the roundabout itself because exiting, making a U turn and then re-entering the roundabout will be longer and thus slower. Since the no U turn relations are there to make routing work and a reasonable router won’t need them, I’d say they are “noise”. If I were to go in to fix something on that intersection, I’d probably remove the no U turn restriction(s). But I don’t think I’d go out of my way to find them.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Cheers!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Apr 4, 2018, at 4:36 PM, <a href="mailto:osm.tagging@thorsten.engler.id.au" target="_blank">osm.tagging@thorsten.engler.id.au</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I’ve noticed that someone from the Microsoft Open Map team is very busy adding turn restrictions all over the place (<span class=m4715304138645199996apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/shawat94/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#954F72'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/shawat94/</span></a><span class=m4715304138645199996apple-converted-space> </span>).</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>In my local neighbourhood, I noticed that he added no_u_turn restrictions to all the nodes where a road into in/out of a roundabout is splitting (because of physical separation). Which basically amounts to 4 no_u_turn restrictions for every single roundabout.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>e.g. here:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/57747093" target="_blank"><span style='color:#954F72'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/57747093</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/57674063" target="_blank"><span style='color:#954F72'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/57674063</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>There is no actual no_u_turn sign in any of these locations, it’s just (mostly) physically a bad idea to attempt a u-turn here.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Just a few weeks ago I discussed exactly this in #osm and the conclusion was that it was neither necessary nor desirable to do this.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I made a comment about that to the first of the two changesets linked above, but haven’t gotten a reply.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>So, what is the general opinion about this here? Should these turn restrictions be created or not?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thorsten</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>Tagging mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#954F72'>Tagging@openstreetmap.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br></span><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#954F72'>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Tagging mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>