<div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">> The main problem multilingual map effort is trying to solve is how to calculate the language of the "name" tag. </span><br><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">As I understand - We need a "simple metadata" - about the "current mapping rules" [ <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names</a> ]</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">So, We can use this for:</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">- Multilingual Maps </span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">- OSM Editors - checking/validating character sets, extreme characters<br>- "Localization of name suggestion": <a href="https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/issues/11">https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/issues/11</a></span></div><div>- other QA tools ( osmcha?)</div><div><br></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="font-size:12.8px">My biggest problem is the "on the ground" rule: <br></span> <i> "The "on the ground" rule remains the method of determining the appropriate value for the name tag. "</i><br><span style="font-size:12.8px"> <a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea</a></span></span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">But sometimes reusing this metadata for QA rules is not so simple : </div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">- " Béla Bartók square in Paris. The “ó” is not valid in French." see more: <a href="https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187">https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187</a></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></span></div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><b>My pragmatic solution</b></span><br><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="font-size:12.8px">in my mind, this is 2 separated problem:</span></span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="font-size:12.8px">- inventing a good metadata for every case </span></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">( see <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names</a> for example: Hong Kong )</span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="font-size:12.8px">- storing the metadata [ as an OSM tag; in the OsmWiki ; </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">in the Github(</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"><a href="https://github.com/osmlab/">https://github.com/osmlab/</a></span>....)<span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="font-size:12.8px">First - We can create a simple metadata - with the "Wikidata"-keys on the OSM admin areas<br><br></span></span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">like a simple Wikidata(OSM<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"> admin-area)</span> - primary/secondary language code table<br><br></span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">name_en, Wikidata, primaryOnTheGroundLang, secondary<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">OnTheGround</span>Lang</font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Aruba,<span style="white-space:pre"> </span> Q21203, nl , </font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Afghanistan,<span style="white-space:pre"> </span>Q889, ps</font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Angola,<span style="white-space:pre"> </span> Q916, pt</font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Anguilla,<span style="white-space:pre"> </span>Q25228, en</font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Albania,<span style="white-space:pre"> </span>Q222, sq</font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Åland Islands,<span style="white-space:pre"> </span>Q5689, sv<br>..</font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Crimea, Q7835, ru, uk </font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Russia, Q159, ru,</font></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face="monospace, monospace">Ukraine, Q212, uk,</font><span style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> </span></div><div><font face="monospace, monospace" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">...<br><br></font></div>- If some area overlapping ( "Crimea") - the smaller area has a higher priority <br>- We can merge this metadata with the OSM - and after we have polygons. </span></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2018-04-24 15:58 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yuriastrakhan@gmail.com" target="_blank">yuriastrakhan@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>The main problem multilingual map effort is trying to solve is how to calculate the language of the "name" tag. Without it, name tag becomes nearly useless. For example:<br><br></div>* An Italian user viewing a feature in China with two tags: "name" and "name:fr". In this case, "name:fr" tag is preferred because "name" is likely to be in Chinese - not great for an Italian speaker.<br></div>* Same tags, but the feature is in Italy -- now "name" tag is the better choice because the name is actually in the same language as the reader.<br><br></div>Without knowing the language of the "name" tag, we cannot use it as part of the "script matching" - give preference to languages that use the same script as the reader, even if the language is different.<br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Andy Townsend <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" target="_blank">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On 24/04/2018 09:11, Rory McCann wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Ireland has 2 official languges (Irish first & then English), but only ~2% of the population speak Irish daily. There are some legal defined regions of Ireland which are supposed to be "Irish speaking areas", but even there Irish is a minority language. So how should that be tagged? (Some day we'll get around to mapping the Gaeltachtaí)<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Ireland's pretty much a "best case" for this as it does have defined language regions for Irish. Most places don't.<span><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
If you want to know the language in a multi-lingual area, why not look at the name, and name:XX tags. If the name value is the same as a name:Z then Z is the language.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
That won't always work. You can probably guess the example I'm going to pick next - <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52241235" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>node/52241235</a> :)<br>
<br>
For those unaware, the story there is summarised at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Daingean#Name" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>An_Daingean#Name</a> . It's a while since I've been there; not sure how much of a "cause celebre" it is currently. I've certainly heard people on RTE refer to it as "Dingle / An Daingean" (that's the English name and the commonly used Irish name but not the official Irish name...).<br>
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Best Regards,<br>
Andy<div class="m_-8208621701835403152HOEnZb"><div class="m_-8208621701835403152h5"><br>
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