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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Bryan Housel <bhousel@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 12 June 2018 01:12<br><b>To:</b> osm-tagging <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] I can't support transit:lanes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Two issues here.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>First, the tag is not “transit:lanes” the tag is “transit” and it can be used with the generalized “:lanes” suffix.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>There are general rules for the :lanes suffix which can be added to pretty much any tag you would have on a highway were the value could be different for different lanes. See</span> <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple'>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>It’s the same with e.g. “turn:lanes” (a “turn” key with the “:lanes” suffix) or “access:lanes” (a “access” key with the “:lanes” suffix).</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>.. none of this matters because the tag can’t go on a way anyhow.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>It matters very much, as the person was proposing to use a lanes:something tag to tag information that is clearly belonging into a xxxx:lanes tag (as it will has to provide per lane information, following exactly the same rules as any other :lanes tags)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Second, the “transition” tag is already in use:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/transition"><span style='color:purple'>https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/transition</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Now, as far as I can tell, these are pretty much all transition=yes tags on power=tower or power=pole nodes. These seem to be left-overs from a previous tagging scheme, which has been replaced by the use of the location:transition=yes tag (and at 342 vs 13388 uses that seems to have been well accepted by now). </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>So I guess it might be possible to coordinated with people that are involved in power mapping to have these remaining ones retagged to free up the transition key.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The type=transition value is currently unused, so in that regard the change would be fine.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ok, so add a new type of relation and call it `type=lane_transition`<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Types_of_relation">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Types_of_relation</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>you are mixing relation type and the tag used to describe the transition here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>type=transition has 0 uses and there is no problem using it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>There are currently 342 transition=* tags being used (for something totally different), but they all should be location:transition tags anyway by now as far as I can tell.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>I agree that this tag when used on ways is problematic from an editor perspective. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Though by following pretty simple rules, the editor could prevent the transit(ion):lanes tag on a way from breaking:<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Maybe seems simple to you, but I’m not going to do it, and the JOSM and Vespucci folks have also already said no too. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>As I said, if you have proper editor support for transitions so that people don’t have to fiddle around with manually creating relations, then there is no need for transit(ion) tags on ways. If such editor support is missing and the quick and simple tagging on the ways is eliminated, then it’s going to be DOA because nobody is going to be crazy enough to create all these relations by hand.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>