<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 11:34 AM, César Martínez Izquierdo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cesar.izq@gmail.com" target="_blank">cesar.izq@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I wonder the best way to tag Spanish historic farmhouses ("masías"<br>
[1], "caseríos" [2] "cortijos", "pazos", etc), since I find no proper<br>
value of "historic" for them.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I suggest you contact the creator of <a href="http://gk.historic.place/">http://gk.historic.place/</a> for this is where most historic<br></div><div>and heritage tags are rendered and decisions about those tags are made. But here are<br></div><div>my thoughts on it.<br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I think that the best way is to tag their current use (e.g.<br>
building=hotel, or building=civic+tourism=museum, etc) and then use<br>
the "historic" tag to note they are a historic farmhouse.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is the wrong way to go. See <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building</a> - the very first<br></div><div>paragraph explains that building=* describes the building's form, not its purpose. A deconsecrated<br></div><div>church may have been converted into a hotel, which means it is building=church +<br>building:use=hotel + tourism=hotel. Barns are often converted to accomodation, they are still<br></div><div>building=barn. Use building=* to describe what it looks like, not what it is used for.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Also, historic=* is not about what it was last used for, but that it is of historic interest. So a building may<br></div><div>have been constructed as a church (and most people looking at it would think it was a church), it may<br></div><div>have later been converted to a hotel and is now a shopping centre. The historical interest is that it was<br></div><div>a church, so historic=church not historic=hotel. Again, the historic tag is mainly of use on<br><a href="http://gk.historic.place/">http://gk.historic.place/</a> where it causes special rendering to occur in a clickable overlay.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I see different options for the proper historic value.<br>
<br>
1- historic=manor<br>
2- historic=farmhouse<br>
3- historic=masia, historic=cortijo, etc<br>
<br>
I wonder if option 1 (manor) is too specific to UK or it can be<br>
applied also to these kind of building.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div> If it meets the requirements of historic=manor then use historic=manor. OSM<br></div><div>uses British English names for tags and values (except where those values are names<br></div><div>of things or other types of literal text).<br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
OSM wiki states: "The manor tag is intended only for representative<br>
buildings that are in the same time the administrative center of a<br>
large agricultural estate. Buildings lacking this economic feature<br>
should not be tagged.".<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>OSM wiki needs to be fixed. It is clear, from context, that it should say "buildings<br></div><div>that WERE" not "buildings that are." I'd fix it myself, but I'm not sure what was<br></div><div>intended by the qualifying "in the same time." <br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Regarding option 2, this would be a new value for historic, and I am<br>
not sure it will really catch the historic relevance of the building.<br>
We don't tag it as historic because it was a farmhouse, but because of<br>
its architecture and historic relevance in administering the lands<br>
surrounding it.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You tag it as historic because it causes special rendering on gk.historic.place. Invent a<br></div><div>new value for historic=* without first discussing it with the maintainer of that site and you<br></div><div>may not get any special rendering. <br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
The 3rd option (using different values for each kind building) looks a<br>
bit overkilling, since there are many different names (masía,<br>
alquería, cortijo, caserío, pazo, cigarral, quinta, carmen, etc, etc)<br>
and this would create too much tag fragmentation.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Indeed. That's why we use British English in tag names. Otherwise each tag name and<br></div><div>value would have as many variants as there are languages.<br></div><div><br></div><div>As well as historic=* you may find heritage=* is applicable if the building is officially listed as<br><span class="gmail-plainlinks" title="wikipedia:en:Bien de Interés Cultural"><a rel="nofollow" class="external gmail-text" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:Bien_de_Inter%C3%A9s_Cultural">Bien de Interés Cultural</a> by the Ministry of Education, Culture and Sport. See<br><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:heritage#Spain">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:heritage#Spain</a> for details of how to map.<br><br></span></div><div><span class="gmail-plainlinks" title="wikipedia:en:Bien de Interés Cultural">For example, here is the result of going to gk.historic.place, zooming in to Cardigan, setting the "show more<br></span></div><div><span class="gmail-plainlinks" title="wikipedia:en:Bien de Interés Cultural">objects" control to 3, and clicking on the icon for Cardigan Castle.<br><a href="http://gk.historic.place/historische_objekte/translate/en/index-en.html?zoom=18&lat=52.082&lon=-4.66081&pid=HaHbHcSaHe&detail=3&select=w568794249">http://gk.historic.place/historische_objekte/translate/en/index-en.html?zoom=18&lat=52.082&lon=-4.66081&pid=HaHbHcSaHe&detail=3&select=w568794249</a><br><br>-- <br></span></div><div><span class="gmail-plainlinks" title="wikipedia:en:Bien de Interés Cultural">Paul<br><br></span></div></div></div></div>