<div dir="ltr">+1<div>In Nederland, "walking speed" has been redefined as 15 Kmph. </div><div>Shared zones are not explicitly definied. Living_street has pedestrian priority, street_exits (constructed like driveway exits) too. Many places are implicitly shared zones, such as parking lots, market squares outside market hours, pedestrian areas where traffic is alowed as guests, paved village greens when there is no event goining on, etcetera.</div><div><br></div><div>Sometimes on accident-prone locations where traffic regulation is impossible, all pavements are unified, kerbs and signs are removed, and usually the number of accidents suddenly approaches zero.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2018-07-15 12:11 GMT+02:00 Tobias Zwick <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:osm@westnordost.de" target="_blank">osm@westnordost.de</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Tagging these zones explicitly with the rules the law dictates for these<br>
zones is certainly a solution, but a less ideal one than merely tagging<br>
the type of zone because this would require every surveyor to know<br>
exactly what rules apply to tag it correctly. A surveyor just sees this:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/France_road_sign_B52.svg/262px-France_road_sign_B52.svg.png" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://upload.wikimedia.org/<wbr>wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/<wbr>France_road_sign_B52.svg/<wbr>262px-France_road_sign_B52.<wbr>svg.png</a><br>
<br>
I see the following pros if we'd specifically tag shared zones as such,<br>
and not (only) the rules derived from that:<br>
<br>
1. Surveyors don't need to know what rules exactly are derived from that<br>
sign, so it is easier and more consistently mapped<br>
<br>
2. better verifiability: we tag the existence of the sign above, not<br>
just rules that are derived from that sign<br>
<br>
3. slightly better future-compatibilty: since the existance of the sign<br>
instead of rules derived from that sign is mapped, there is no<br>
problem should the rules change<br>
<br>
4. slightly less complex evaluation by routers: router software just<br>
needs to look at one tag (like with highway=living_street) to know<br>
that the road is a very low priority road instead of evaluating the<br>
designated tags.<br>
<br>
How about this?<br>
---------------<br>
<br>
We tag shared zones (where that sign is visible) as<br>
highway=living_street, but tag the speed limit explicitly to what can be<br>
read on the sign. As said, in all countries that implemented shared<br>
zones so far, the actual speed limit is explicitly given on the sign.<br>
<br>
Reasons:<br>
1. Shared zones share pretty much the same traffic rules as<br>
living streets, and they are implementations of the same concept:<br>
shared space zones[1].<br>
<br>
2. At least in Belgium, Belarus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland,<br>
Georgia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland and Ukraine (source: [2]),<br>
the implicit speed limit for "real" living streets is actually 20<br>
km/h (the common speed limit for shared zones). So, the living<br>
streets in these countries are already more like shared zones.<br>
Actually, there are more countries with the concept of living streets<br>
that set a default 10-20 km/h limit than those that set a "walking<br>
speed" limit. This explains why "Begegnungszone"/shared zone only<br>
exist in a few countries - in the others, living streets are<br>
basically already that.<br>
<br>
3. No changes required for router software to understand shared zones as<br>
a very low priority road :-D<br>
<br>
4. And of course the 4 pros mentioned above.<br>
<br>
Tobias<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Shared_space</a><br>
[2] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/wiki/Default_speed_limits</a><br>
<span class=""><br>
On 15/07/2018 00:22, Andrew Harvey wrote:<br>
> While I agree they match the description of highway=living_street<br>
> sometimes these also match highway=service (service=alley) so it can be<br>
> hard to decide which tag to use...<br>
> <br>
> Either way I tag them with maxspeed=10 (lower speed limit),<br>
> foot=designated, bicycle=designated, motor_vehicle=designated since<br>
> that's what the signage indicates.<br>
> <br>
> On Sun., 15 Jul. 2018, 12:36 am Tobias Zwick, <<a href="mailto:osm@westnordost.de">osm@westnordost.de</a><br>
</span><div><div class="h5">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:osm@westnordost.de">osm@westnordost.de</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hello,<br>
> <br>
> Should ... shared zones (AU, NZ), also known as...<br>
> - Begegnungszone (CH, AT)[1]<br>
> - Zone de rencontre (BE, FR)[2]<br>
> - Zona de coexistência (PT)<br>
> ... be tagged specifically in OpenStreetMap?<br>
> <br>
> And if yes, with what?<br>
> <br>
> Shared zones are similar to living streets, in that they are both<br>
> implementations of the concept of shared space[3], only that shared<br>
> zones are something I would call "living street light". What these<br>
> implementations I mentioned above all have in common are:<br>
> - pedestrians have right of way or at least equal rights to other<br>
> road users<br>
> - max speed is *not* walking speed, but signposted (usually 10-20 km/h)<br>
> <br>
> Greetings<br>
> Tobias<br>
> <br>
> [1] <a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begegnungszone" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Begegnungszone</a><br>
> <<a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begegnungszone" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://de.wikipedia.org/<wbr>wiki/Begegnungszone</a>><br>
> [2] <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_de_rencontre" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Zone_de_rencontre</a><br>
> <<a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_de_rencontre" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://fr.wikipedia.org/<wbr>wiki/Zone_de_rencontre</a>><br>
> [3] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Shared_space</a><br>
> <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/<wbr>wiki/Shared_space</a>><br>
> <br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Vr gr Peter Elderson</div>
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