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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/07/18 06:31, Alan Grant wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+7RxNOYtRn+9pF+4vwCY5dwGEzY1UE6KHg_dN0Uqva7OWPdLQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="ltr">But why do these
        discussions/controversies/ambiguities matter for golf courses?
        Are we talking about how to tag areas of tree cover that may
        exist between the fairways and greens? <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    And those areas can and should be tagged natural=wood -it renders,
    it does not imply a land use, and 'natural' is taken as both natural
    and unnatural. <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+7RxNOYtRn+9pF+4vwCY5dwGEzY1UE6KHg_dN0Uqva7OWPdLQ@mail.gmail.com"><br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr">On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 at 22:21, Paul Allen <<a
            href="mailto:pla16021@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">pla16021@gmail.com</a>>
          wrote:<br>
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        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Kevin Kenny <span
              dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kevin.b.kenny+osm@gmail.com"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">kevin.b.kenny+osm@gmail.com</a>></span>
            wrote:<br>
            <div class="gmail_extra">
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On
                  Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 3:46 PM Mateusz Konieczny<br>
                  <<a href="mailto:matkoniecz@tutanota.com"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">matkoniecz@tutanota.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  > landuse=forest in OSM is for tree-covered area,
                  not for area used for logging-related purposes<br>
                  <br>
                  And we will keep having this discussion as long as
                  there is no tag<br>
                  that denotes the latter that doesn't get repurposed
                  for the former.<br>
                </blockquote>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>As I recall (recollection may be flawed) the last
                  go-round, the following seemed to be the case:<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div>1) landuse=forest was intended for forestry, but
                  the value (forest) was badly chosen.  Growing trees to
                  be logged<br>
                  is a use of the land.<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div>2) landcover=trees wasn't currently rendered (my
                  recollection may be particularly bad on that).<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div>3) Because landuse=forest is badly named (should
                  have been forestry) and therefore misleading, and
                  because<br>
                </div>
                <div>landcover=trees isn't rendered, landuse=forest was
                  being used for two things.<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div>4) Usual arguments about what constitutes a forest
                  versus a wood and other noise as the whole thread<br>
                </div>
                <div>degenerated.<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>My take on it: tag trees for logging purposes as
                  landuse=forestry (note spelling) and trees not for
                  logging<br>
                </div>
                <div>purposes as landcover=trees or natural=wood as
                  preferred (we can have that argument another time). 
                  Then<br>
                  change the wiki to say that landuse=forest is
                  deprecated because it gets misunderstood and misused,
                  and point<br>
                  to the alternatives.  Introducing two new tags that
                  supersede an existing tag used ambiguously is the only
                  hope of<br>
                </div>
                <div>making this sort of thing work.<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Landuse=forestry is less likely to be misused
                  because "forestry" means logging and because we'd have<br>
                </div>
                <div>landcover=trees (which might even constitute
                  something named "XYZ Forest".<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div>None of this stands a chance of happening unless
                  OSM Carto agrees to implement landuse=forestry and<br>
                </div>
                <div>landcover=trees.  People don't use tags that don't
                  render.  Well, for small, specialized things they do,
                  but for big<br>
                </div>
                <div>areas of trees they won't.  OSM Carto often won't
                  implement new tags because they're not used much;
                  people don't<br>
                </div>
                <div>use new tags that don't render.  Rinse, wash,
                  repeat.  What a shame we don't have a forum like a
                  mailing list where<br>
                </div>
                <div>we could all agree on sensible things to do and
                  then they happen.<br>
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
                </div>
                <div>Paul<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          Tagging mailing list<br>
          <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
          <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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