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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">If the short 'passing_place' is tagged
the same as a longer lane .. then how is it distinguished?<br>
<br>
You cannot count on the mapper to mark the length of it every
time. <br>
So a 100 meter one could have the same tagging as a 10 meter one.
That is not good. <br>
<br>
I think the present tag of passing_place needs to be retained with
the present definition.<br>
<br>
If the use of the lanes tag or a separate service road tag is not
good enough for these longer 'turn outs' then there needs to be
some new tag. <br>
<br>
<br>
On 06/09/18 22:56, Tobias Wrede wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b3914bcc-1d90-0e25-38e4-8179c536d3ca@tobias-wrede.de">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I've just come back from three weeks
vacation in the Sierra Nevada with an RV. I've used turnouts
there extensively. Mostly, they were long enough to me not
having to stop while I let the traffic pass. But there were also
the occasional ones (marked) that were just a 10m paved patch
next to the normal lane.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">In Sweden they have a lot of 2+1
roads and they seem to become popular with planners in Germany,
too (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road</a>).
Basically, it's a permanently alternating long turnout. :-) I
would be overshooting to explicitly mark every two lane bit as a
turnout or passing lane. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I favor the idea of marking turnouts,
passing lanes and 2+1 roads all the same by using the lanes
tagging scheme. For explicit (short) turnouts we might want to
create a new value for turn:lanes=pass or something like that.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Tobi<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 05.09.2018 um 03:13 schrieb Dave
Swarthout:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKWFYhVKQZXdOcc1CSuA9RyEYNb3g8PyQDa06Oj6tATZDmR9xw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">@Warin, Thanks for clearing up my confusion about
passing places. These turnouts are definitely not the same. A
vehicle should never stop in one. They are about 1/4 mile long
and some but not all have painted lines to separate the
highway proper from the turnout lanes. In the U.S., where we
drive on the right, such lanes are always on the right-hand
side of the highway, and although they aren't signed as one
way, it's sensible to include that tag IMO. In practice, a
slow-moving vehicle turns off the main highway, slows down
enough to allow following vehicles time to pass on the left,
after which it returns to the main highway.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Given that the passing_place tag defines the situation
you describe, and indeed was created to model it, I'm not
sure modifying its definition to include ways would be a
good idea. In addition, the term "passing" or, in the EU,
"overtaking", implies that the passing vehicle does so on
the left (U.S.) while these turnouts are always on the
right. Hence my reluctance to redefine that tag.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dave</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 6:55 PM Warin <<a
href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
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.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_8942174159421046052moz-cite-prefix">On
04/09/18 21:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2018-09-04 12:42 GMT+02:00
Dave Swarthout <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:daveswarthout@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">daveswarthout@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Summarizing recent comments:</div>
<span>
<div>Martin wrote:</div>
<div>> what’s wrong with passing place?
Seems to describe the same thing </div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</span>
<div>I thought so too until I noticed that the
Wiki says passing_place is used for nodes
only, using logic that escapes me, so I
began searching for another method. I also
considered modifying that definition so it
includes ways but was reluctant to start
that battle even though that still seems a
good solution.</div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">I would be in favor of adding
the possibility to tag highway=passing_place on
ways, there is already a tiny fraction tagged on
ways (although the percentage currently makes it
clear they are outliers). There's a general problem
with using nodes for features like these: they don't
have a direction, so you can't state where the
widening takes place.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Passing places are not long. <br>
Most of them are just long enough to squeeze in a car and
caravan ... just. <br>
You are supposed to come to a complete stop to let others
pass in either direction. <br>
They are usually on single lane, two way roads. <br>
<br>
So a passing place .. you have to stop in it. You cannot
keep moving as you would with any distance of extra lane.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">For the lanes approach: I
would only use this if the place has some length
(more than 5-10 meters you may typically find on a
track) AND if there are lane markings (general
requirement for lanes).</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Cheers,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Martin<br>
</div>
</div>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Dave Swarthout<br>
Homer, Alaska<br>
Chiang Mai, Thailand<br>
Travel Blog at <a href="http://dswarthout.blogspot.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://dswarthout.blogspot.com</a></div>
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