<div dir="ltr">It looks like I've directed you a bit off the initial topic to the definition of proper name.<br><div>Let us look at it from the other side. Assume we all agree that <span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">"École primaire des Quatre Fils" is the proper name.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">Is there some common approach for denoting locally recognized categories which differ from commonly approved tags?</span></div><div><font color="#500050">E.g. how to denote the "</font>
<span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">École primaire" category?</span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 23:10, Imre Samu <<a href="mailto:pella.samu@gmail.com">pella.samu@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395gmail-m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;width:1272px">> If I live next to a place called 'Hudson Bay' then I put name='Hudson Bay' even if some may argue it may not be a Bay.</div><div><br></div>We can link most of the objects to the Wikidata <br><a href="https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=1282777" target="_blank">https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=1282777</a> -> wikidata=Q3040 -> <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3040" target="_blank">https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3040</a> -> <b><font color="#0000ff">instance of ["inland sea" ; "bay" ]</font></b></div><div dir="ltr"><b><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></b></div>So if somebody don't like the osm categories ( for query ), it is possible to use the Wikidata categories </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Eiffel tower : <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q243" target="_blank">https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q243</a> <br></div><div dir="ltr">instance of<br></div><div dir="ltr">- lattice tower </div><div>- observation tower </div><div>- landmark </div><div>- tourist destination<br></div><div><br></div><div>So with linked data (wikidata, lau numbers ) - we can extend the power of the OSM </div><div>One of the example: <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox</a> ( some query is not working yet )</div><div><br></div><div>Imre</div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">Topographe Fou <<a href="mailto:letopographefou@gmail.com" target="_blank">letopographefou@gmail.com</a>> ezt írta (időpont: 2018. dec. 5., Sze, 20:07):<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);background-image:initial;line-height:initial"><div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762response_container_BBPPID" style="outline:none" dir="auto"> <div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"> I don't see as many issues in your exemple... If École or Musée is part of the name, I don't see why we shall invent a truncated name. It's not because the type is part of the name that we shall remove it.</div><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">Let's take a more famous example: 'Arc de Triomphe' is the name of a landmark in Paris but it is also an 'Arc' (Arch in English). Same for 'Tour Eiffel' (which is a Tour, i.e. a Tower, but also an antenna). I don't see any solution in renaming them Eiffel or Triomphe. Instead we use the name for the 'name' and add their types (a Tower, an arch, a landmark, an antenna...) in attributes.</div><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">And if one needs to list all Lakes in a given country then you have your answer: If it is on a geological basis, then he will look for attributes others than 'name'. If it is on a 'per use' basis, i.e. he wants to know which water area is called lake no matter if it is really one or not, then he will look in the name considering all possible translations. If I live next to a place called 'Hudson Bay' then I put name='Hudson Bay' even if some may argue it may not be a Bay.</div><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">Consequently I don't see a real issue there.</div><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br></div><div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">Yours</div> <div name="BB10" id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762response_div_spacer_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"> <br style="display:initial"></div> <div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762blackberry_signature_BBPPID" name="BB10" dir="auto"> <div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762_signaturePlaceholder_BBPPID" name="BB10" dir="auto">LeTopographeFou</div> </div></div><div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762_original_msg_header_BBPPID" dir="auto"> <table width="100%" style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px;display:table;outline:none"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:initial;font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in;font-family:Tahoma,"BB Alpha Sans","Slate Pro";font-size:10pt"> <div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762from"><b>De:</b> <a href="mailto:yaugenka@gmail.com" target="_blank">yaugenka@gmail.com</a></div><div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762sent"><b>Envoyé:</b> 5 décembre 2018 7:37 PM</div><div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762to"><b>À:</b> <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a></div><div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762reply_to"><b>Répondre à:</b> <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a></div><div id="m_6514342257618985395m_-5033468923504691762subject"><b>Objet:</b> Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <br> </div><div name="BB10" dir="auto" style="background-image:initial;line-height:initial;outline:none"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Martin,<div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">this is already the case. At least it should be like this, if you see places where the name tag is abused for descriptions you should fix it. I admit, it is not always possible to clearly tell which is the correct name, for some kind of things, not even in the real world.<br>At least in OSM you can add alternative names, generically or with specific meaning (loc_name, short_name, etc.)</blockquote></div><div>The name tag is abused very often and systematically. Let's take at look at this spot in the centre of Paris</div><div><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.86138/2.36028" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.86138/2.36028</a><br></div><div>You can see category names displayed everywhere there, e.g. musium, hotel, school (in French).</div><div>As a result when you query OSM database for some category items you have to apply algorithms for clearing category names from the name field to get just proper names.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Eugene</div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 20:25, Martin Koppenhoefer <<a href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com" target="_blank">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 16:50 Uhr schrieb Eugene Podshivalov <<a href="mailto:yaugenka@gmail.com" target="_blank">yaugenka@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">I invision the following solution here.<br><div><p style="border:0px none;margin:0px;padding:7px 0px;font-family:'verdana','arial','helvetica',sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(252,253,254)">* First of all, the "name" tag should containt proper name only.<br></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>this is already the case. At least it should be like this, if you see places where the name tag is abused for descriptions you should fix it. I admit, it is not always possible to clearly tell which is the correct name, for some kind of things, not even in the real world.</div><div>At least in OSM you can add alternative names, generically or with specific meaning (loc_name, short_name, etc.)</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><p style="border:0px none;margin:0px;padding:7px 0px;font-family:'verdana','arial','helvetica',sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(252,253,254)">* Secondly, introduce a new tag for the real life language specific category name. I know that "name:prefix/postfix" key was originally introduced for another purpose but it can be a candidate here as well. Note that in some languages the place of category name relative to the proper name matters.<br></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I agree this could make sense, I am doing it for places where you can eat with this tag and local values:</div><div><a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/restaurant%3Atype%3Ait#values" target="_blank">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/restaurant%3Atype%3Ait#values</a><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">I would not expect it useful for any kind of things, but there are fields with cultural specialties where I agree that it would be hard to agree on detailed categories on a global level, and still it might not make sense outside of a specific cultural context anyway.<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Martin<br></div></div></div></div>
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