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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">presence looks to be used with taxi
      ranks to say when they are expected to have taxies present. <br>
      <br>
      There is occurrence .. and that is already in use with occurrence
      =intermittent as part of an import .. excellent!<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      So <br>
      occurrence
=perennial/non_perennial/seasonal/intermittent/ephemeral/summer/spring/winter/autumn/etc<br>
      <br>
      And of course state that perennial be the default if untagged.<br>
      <br>
      On 14/12/18 13:09, Tod Fitch wrote:<br>
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    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:CD079D4D-CCC7-41FA-98E9-0BFEDFE62BB6@fitchdesign.com">
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      I do like the idea of one key to rule them all. But I am
      uncomfortable with a key name which has a negative preface.
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">At first I wondered about a perennial tag but then
        the values might be difficult. Then it occurred that we are
        trying to tag the presence of something, in this case water.
        There are only a few things tagged with presence=* now [1] and
        they look unrelated to water. But how about:</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">presence=perennial/seasonal/intermittent/ephemeral/summer/spring/winter/autumn/
        etc.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">And state that perennial be the default if untagged.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Cheers!</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">[1] <a
          href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/presence#values"
          class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/presence#values</a></div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Dec 13, 2018, at 4:55 PM, Warin <<a
                href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thoughts ... (take on 
                  Hobbit like theme - one key to rule them all...)<br
                    class="">
                  <br class="">
                  As both intermittent and seasonal are all render the
                  same .. why not combine them into one key as well?<br
                    class="">
                  <br class="">
                  <br class="">
non_perennial=seasonal/intermittent/ephemeral/summer/spring/winter/autumn/intermittent_summer/ephemeral_summer
                  etc<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  I note that intermittent is taken by many as 'I know
                  it is non-perennial' so it may be appropriate to have
                  a non_perennial=yes for the more common mapping value.
                  <br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  ??? <br class="">
                  Well? Is that a reasonable idea? <br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  It could be implemented as a mechanical edit on <br
                    class="">
                  seasonal 1:1. <br class="">
                  On intermittent=yes ... as non_perennial=yes with a
                  request to determine a more specific value? <br
                    class="">
                  On intermittent=<i class="">season</i> ... as
                  non_perennial=intermittent_<i class="">season<br
                      class="">
                    <br class="">
                  </i>These could coexist with the present tags while
                  people changed over. <br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  On 14/12/18 10:58, Sergio Manzi wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:bf5697a2-a81b-5a1e-639b-787528a92f3e@smz.it"
                  class="">
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                  <p class="">You can do <b class="">exactly the same</b>
                    with my new proposed values for intermittent=*</p>
                  <p class="">No need for a new key, I think.</p>
                  <p class="">Cheers,</p>
                  <p class="">Sergio</p>
                  <p class=""><br class="">
                  </p>
                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2018-12-14 00:48,
                    Warin wrote:<br class="">
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite"
                    cite="mid:d4261d73-7bcb-7221-7a3d-62e794287732@gmail.com"
                    class="">
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                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/12/18 12:48,
                      Sergio Manzi wrote:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite"
                      cite="mid:62423be8-97fd-77f6-86cf-86e66b0ab5a1@smz.it"
                      class="">
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                      <p class=""><br class="">
                      </p>
                      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2018-12-13 02:36,
                        Warin wrote:<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite"
                        cite="mid:358bb889-e62e-be8f-dfe3-ae1140f6efdb@gmail.com"
                        class="">At the moment developing a system to
                        render seasonal values on requires a 
                        determination on spring/summer/autumn/winter etc
                        .. this would add some new terms. Not too hard
                        but does add to things. </blockquote>
                      <p class="">Also developing a system to render the
                        ephemeral key would add some complexity,
                        probably more...<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                      </p>
                      <blockquote type="cite"
                        cite="mid:358bb889-e62e-be8f-dfe3-ae1140f6efdb@gmail.com"
                        class="">Not certain about ephemeral being
                        subservient to intermittent. <br class="">
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class="">If it is not there all of the time,
                        than it is intermittent.<br class="">
                      </p>
                      <p class="">If it doesn't last long, than it is
                        ephemeral (<i class="">but then it is not there
                          all of the time and thus it is intermittent
                          too</i>).</p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br class="">
                    The primary motivation for me is that a water
                    feature with intermittent is more likely to have
                    water, even it I have to dig a meter or two for it,
                    than a water feature with ephemeral.<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    I don't expect a 'normal' map will tell me this. But
                    a desert map should. <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    I would map the ephemeral river banks/courses. <br
                      class="">
                    But then the places where water pools to form more
                    permanent water sources I would as natural=water,
                    intermittent=yes. In this way they can be
                    distinguished as a more probable source of water. <br
                      class="">
                    Some satellite imagery shows these .. but then some
                    shows the area just after rain! So it requires some
                    judgements. <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    I'll add this as a rationale ... <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
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                    <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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