<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Yes, it would be more comfortable to tag the PayPoint service itself in a certain way instead of all the individual services.</div><div><br></div><div>It is also better maintainable, as when a new provider registers with PayPoint, we don't need to amend all previously tagged places with a mass import.</div><div><br></div><div>From a perspective of policy, I guess we may allow such shorthand for specific exceptional cases when end users can easily identify the brand and what it implicates. Keep in mind that machine processing will suffer unless we store such mapping on the wiki.</div><div><br></div><div>In order to properly fill payment:*=*, I once started to gather the kind of POS terminals and payment processors in Hungary and the type of cards accepted at each place, but the list was not pretty. Basically each shop accepts a random subset of 5-10 card issuers depending on the payment processor/terminal provider. Noting all accepted cards precisely for every shop is exhaustive, so it is not being done around here (I myself simply use debit_cards=yes instead). It would also carry a high maintenance burden later on. However, if we simply mapped the payment processor/terminal provider instead of the individual card combinations accepted, it could be done much more effectively, but then we needed an external lookup table very similar to what you propose, that may be edited on a machine readable wiki page for example. I find that this very same issue pops up pretty often when we are trying to extend and redesign OSM related data models and processes, so it would be nice to arrive at a universal solution for this.</div><div><br></div><div>Here are some examples at the end of this thread if you are interested:</div><div><a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/openstreetmap-hungary/0ufRoNmw25U">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/openstreetmap-hungary/0ufRoNmw25U</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Although I'm not from the UK, I think this is where the term "top up" originated from and what the of the world identifies it as:</div><div><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_up" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_up</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>However, I can see where you are coming from:</div><div><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/top-up#Noun" target="_blank">https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/top-up#Noun</a><br></div><div><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/top_up#Verb" target="_blank">https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/top_up#Verb</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>In Hungary, it doesn't make sense to say "topping up" (roughly translated as "filling up your balance") your bills - we always use the word "pay" or "settle" (the latter roughly translated as equilibrate) in context of debts and invoices. Although the words for refilling coffee (the waiter roughly asks whether they can pour/fill some more coffee for you) and topping up balance (you roughly say that you are "charging" some balance or money on the card similar to charging or filling up a battery completely) are pretty close indeed.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>So if you see a potential for confusion with the future use of the term "top up", please help us come up with a better one that can still be understood and translated internationally.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 9:18 PM Paul Allen <<a href="mailto:pla16021@gmail.com" target="_blank">pla16021@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 at 18:07, bkil wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Please don't confuse top ups with refilling:</div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Refilling_a_purchased_drink" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Refilling_a_purchased_drink</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>I think "top up" is standard terminology in the UK for increasing the balance of prepaid mobile phone accounts.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div>That, amongst other things. Even when, strictly speaking, they're payments rather than top-ups.</div><div>Because language mutates that way, and what started out as being purely for topping things up</div><div>ended up also handling bill payments.<br></div><div><br></div>Since you mentioned the UK, then just to complicate matters...</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">A large number of outlets offer the services of PayPoint. With this system I can top up my phone</div><div class="gmail_quote">account with the UK's four main mobile network operators (and possibly some of the virtual operators),</div><div class="gmail_quote">pay some or part of my gas bill, top up my electricity meter key, pay some or part of my water bill, pay</div><div class="gmail_quote">some or part of my TV licence (those outside the UK may have no idea what that is or why we have one)</div><div class="gmail_quote">and pay many other different things.</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">I'd like to be able to point you at a list of everything that can be paid/topped up using PayPoint. I really</div><div class="gmail_quote">would. Because, if I saw the list I might spot some other thing it would be preferable[1] for me to pay</div><div class="gmail_quote"> that way. But PayPoint's website appears not to have such a list. I might be able to find such a list</div><div class="gmail_quote">from the sitemap, but that is broken. So all I can do is give you this link and you can play</div><div class="gmail_quote">"guess the logo" for the 30+ logos of the claimed 300+ companies that can be paid this way:</div><div class="gmail_quote"><a href="https://corporate.paypoint.com/our-proposition/whatwedo" target="_blank">https://corporate.paypoint.com/our-proposition/whatwedo</a></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div>There's a hell of a lot of things that can be paid/topped up that way. I suspect it might be better (at least<div class="gmail_quote"> in the UK) to tag it topup:payment_network=paypoint or some such rather than have 300+ <br></div><div class="gmail_quote">topup:phone:ee=yes + topup:electricy:sse=yes + topup:water:dwr_cymru=yes +</div><div class="gmail_quote">topup:gas:eon=yes + topup:tv_licence=yes +...</div><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">[1]Why would I ever find it preferable to pay anything (other than top up my electricity meter key) this</div><div class="gmail_quote">way? My bank has a scheme to encourage people to use online banking, whereby certain businesses</div><div class="gmail_quote">offer discounts (if you use online banking to select a particular discount currently on offer). One of the</div><div class="gmail_quote"> shops near me with a PayPoint terminal is part of a franchise that offers me a 5% discount every 3 or</div><div class="gmail_quote"> 4 months. It's supposed to entice me to buy their big-brand-only, sold-at higher-than-anybody-else's</div><div class="gmail_quote"> prices merchandise. I use it purely for PayPoint purchases where the price is exactly the same as I'd</div><div class="gmail_quote">pay anywhere else. I even get 5% off cashback under that discount scheme!<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote">-- <br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Paul</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div>
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