<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br>Am 07.02.2019 um 16:01 schrieb <a href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org">tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a>:<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 2. Re: A general problem: Co-ordinate sets vs. background<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> informations (marc marc)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 3. Re: A general problem: Co-ordinate sets vs. background<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> informations (Andy Townsend)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> 4. Nope | Re: A general problem: Co-ordinate sets vs. background<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> informations (Rory McCann)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">------------------------------<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Message: 2<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 14:30:22 +0000<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: marc marc <<a href="mailto:marc_marc_irc@hotmail.com">marc_marc_irc@hotmail.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: "<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [Tagging] A general problem: Co-ordinate sets vs.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>background informations<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Message-ID:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><<a href="mailto:DB6P190MB0279839CBB1BC8C0B4118302B7680@DB6P190MB0279.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">DB6P190MB0279839CBB1BC8C0B4118302B7680@DB6P190MB0279.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Le 07.02.19 à 12:20, Ulrich Lamm a écrit :<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">it has to distinguish between<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">it's why good changeset have a good description and a source tag.<br></blockquote>Mighty people in OSM, at least one in Germany, punish mappers, if they use database contents available under Creative Commons license, though source tags fit Creative Commons conditions, of course.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">------------------------------<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Message: 3<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 14:39:46 +0000<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: Andy Townsend <<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [Tagging] A general problem: Co-ordinate sets vs.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>background informations<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2082011c-557c-dfd8-7397-7f478db4e3d0@gmail.com">2082011c-557c-dfd8-7397-7f478db4e3d0@gmail.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 07/02/2019 11:20, Ulrich Lamm wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If OSM does not want to be a junk project with a junk product, it has to distinguish between the geometry, self made or ODbL,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and referenced background informations, fulfilling Creative Commons rules.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">What on earth does the accuracy of a particular feature in OSM have to <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">do with the licence under which that geometry was obtained?<br></blockquote>Geometry can only be imported under ODbL conditions,<br>whereas most of the background informations are only available under Creative Commons conditions.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Also statements like "If OSM does not want to be a junk project with a <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">junk product" don't reflect well on the person making them.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Best Regards,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Andy<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">------------------------------<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Message: 4<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 15:55:13 +0100<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: Rory McCann <<a href="mailto:rory@technomancy.org">rory@technomancy.org</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: [Tagging] Nope | Re: A general problem: Co-ordinate sets vs.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>background informations<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:q3hgsh$37v3$1@blaine.gmane.org">q3hgsh$37v3$1@blaine.gmane.org</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">OSM is reliable. Rather than using government published data, it uses <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">crowdsourced data. Most (all?) of creative commons licences allow <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">modification, so CC doesn't guarantee "protection against alternations".<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">OSM has been going for almost 15 years. It hasn't turned into junk yet, <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">what makes you think it'll happen at all? Since it's been going so long, <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">maybe it's actually doing something right?<br></blockquote>In many sties, official maps are less actual than OSM,<br>but many of the data available in public databases are the product of long term and still continuing scientific work:<br>Elevations of the water level of lakes are the mean values of several decades. <br>The official data set of such a lake distinguishes between that mean level and the actual level at the time of the last visit of an environment officer.<br>Volunteer mappers record one value at one time and, naively, believe that value were representative.<br>Definitions of courses of water (what is the real headwater of XY River in its hydrological system) by the environment authorities are based (and sometimes are revised) on continuous systematical assessment of the whole river system.<br>And the official definition created this way is valid.<br>Eventual visits of volunteers are not that scientific and do not result in more than a private opinion.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 07/02/2019 12:20, Ulrich Lamm wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There are very different kinds of data, OSM has to use to serve reliable correct informations itself:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Co-ordinate sets of lines:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">In order to map courses of streets and waterways, it is useful but not necessary, if co-ordinate sets from databases can be imported.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">For the localisation of boundaries it may be inevitable, sometimes.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Importing co-ordinate sets cannot fit Creative Commons conditions.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">After their integration in the map, their provenience is invisible.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And as every mapper can move every point, their alteration cannot be prevented.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This way, Co-ordinate sets of lines only can be imported under ODbL conditions.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Definitions and background informations:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On the hand, without referenced definitions and naming of geographic objects, OSM is not reliable.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">OSM has established tags for these references, such as source:name, ref:sandre, ref:gkz.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Many of such informations are available under Creative Commons licensing, as the providers want to enable free use.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">For these kind of data, Creative Commons conditions are first of all a protection against alterations.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If OSM does not want to be a junk project with a junk product, it has to distinguish between the geometry, self made or ODbL,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and referenced background informations, fulfilling Creative Commons rules.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Best regards<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Ulamm = Ulrich Lamm<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tagging mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><div><br></div></body></html>