<div dir="ltr">I can't answer the question for busrelations.<div><br></div><div>For long hiking routes and walking node networks, relations containing relations are very important.</div><div><br></div><div>Without those, maintenance of long hiking routes becomes a p.i.t.b, sometimes near impossible. </div><div><br></div><div>Rendering can be done without superroutes, just by rendering each piece separately. But datausers need to resolve the hierarchy. Waymarkedtrails does that nicely for long recreational routes: Just replace every member relation with its content, recursively. Works nicely- if it's only ways in the lowest level relations. </div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure if your case needs just rendering or also data use/routing/navigation. </div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Vr gr Peter Elderson</div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op wo 13 mrt. 2019 om 15:05 schreef Paul Allen <<a href="mailto:pla16021@gmail.com">pla16021@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 13:29, Andy Townsend <<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" target="_blank">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 13/03/2019 13:18, Paul Allen wrote:<br>
> I've hesitated to ask this question for months now: what's the<br>
> consensus on superroutes?<br>
<br>
In what context are you asking the question? I can think of examples <br>
where the answer would be "a really bad idea" and others where the <br>
answer would be "essential; there's really no other sensible way to have <br>
that data in OSM".<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's more positive than I expected: they're not always on a par with eating babies but the use</div><div>has to be justifiable.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Can I get the data into OSM without a superroute? Sure. Is that data useful without a superroute?</div><div class="gmail_quote">Not so much. It is this bus route:</div><div class="gmail_quote"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8592409#map=14/52.0860/-4.6644" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8592409#map=14/52.0860/-4.6644</a></div><div class="gmail_quote">That is incomplete and has some omissions and errors. I really ought to fix it, but I had</div><div class="gmail_quote">this thought about superroutes and realized if I fixed and then found out I could use a</div><div class="gmail_quote">superroute I'd later have to rework a few things.<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">It's a circular. It starts at what can loosely be called the bus station. It does what can loosely</div><div class="gmail_quote">be called a hairy circular route to return to the bus station. The route then continues on a side</div><div class="gmail_quote">trip and eventually returns to the bus station, completing the "circle."</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">There are places where the bus goes into a dead-end and gets out by reversing into a side</div><div class="gmail_quote">junction. This differs from similar manoeuvres at a terminus of a non-circular route because</div><div class="gmail_quote">passengers are on board. It does a loop-the-loop. It appears to do a figure-8 but actually</div><div class="gmail_quote">there are other side-trips that mean it really isn't.<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">One problem that I don't see a solution for in PTV1, PTV2 or "we don't tag it PTV3" is a stop</div><div class="gmail_quote">that is ignored on the first pass but comes into play on the second pass. The bus starts at</div><div class="gmail_quote">the bus station A, passes through nodes B, C and D and turns right at D to E. On this pass</div><div class="gmail_quote">through C it ignores the bus stop there. After it's gone through the alphabet back to A, it</div><div class="gmail_quote">again goes through B, C and D but this time turns left to alpha, beta, etc. On this pass it</div><div class="gmail_quote">does stop at C. Piling all the stops into the relation may lead the routers to conclude that</div><div class="gmail_quote">you can wait at the stop C to get directly to E when you can't (but you can get on at C to take</div><div class="gmail_quote">a detour through the greek alphabet and eventually get to E because it's a circular).</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Splitting it into route segments would fix the problem with the stop at C. On one segment it isn't</div><div class="gmail_quote">a listed stop. On another segment it is.<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Splitting it into route segments would also make it clearer what happens in the loop-the-loop</div><div class="gmail_quote">and the figure-of-8 in the town centre, if the splits are chosen judiciously. If I'm really clever</div><div class="gmail_quote">I can find splits that make the variant routes fit in nicely, too. You think that route is insane?</div><div class="gmail_quote">Wait until I add the variants.<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Best of all, I could pull these into umap. It would then be possible to display route segments</div><div class="gmail_quote">in turn to see where the bus goes rather than trying to puzzle it out from the overall route. Yes,</div><div class="gmail_quote">if you're very familiar with OSM you can puzzle it out from the relation, but most people can't do</div><div class="gmail_quote">that (and I find it difficult, even with knowledge of how the route runs).<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">So, good idea, bad idea, or should I stick to eating babies as that would be more socially</div><div class="gmail_quote">acceptable?</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">-- <br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Paul</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div></div>
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